Mario Kart Wii League

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Alright, Mario Kart Wii is out. And its online features are great...for a Wii game. Its time we make one of these if enough people want to join.

Proposal:
What I suggest is when we have about 8 or more people signed up, we can start the League. It would just consist of everyone playing on two select days a week, voted on by everyone, in 'Racing Mode' for 5 races. Then as many races as people want to stay in for after that. Hopefully you could make it to both days of the week, but it would be two days a week understanding that most people wouldn't be able to always get to both days always. No special rules put on the level selection or characters allowed, just the same way it is online with the voting system and you choose the character and kart/bike.

Not too many rules to the game itself. What needs to be decided is what days we will play and if people want to keep track of who wins or not.

Voting:
So this is where voting comes in. On top of making this thread so people can sign up for the League, just like having a Smash Bros Brawl League, I think you guys should vote for how these things should happen.

Requirements:
So if all of this sounds good to you, go ahead and sign up here in this thread! Make sure you put your suggested days and times of when you'd like to play (more than two is better). Wither you'd like to keep track of the first 3-4 winners of each race or just have the games be fun. And of course, throw in some suggestions if you think I haven't thought of something. Sorry, to make stuff official, if you don't meet these two pretty simple requirements on top of saying 'I'll play', you can't be in the League. This is gonna take a little more work than just typing your name.

[Pegasus]

I'm definitely interested, but my off-days certainly conflict with pretty much anyone else's. My weekend is Tuesday/Wednesday. Throw in the NA/EU time difference and this could get a bit more complicated.

[Kevin]

Sign me up! I'm available anyday 8-10 p.m. eastern time zone will be best time for me to play.

[neuzd]

Ok, here's some thoughts about the format you proposed.
In the way you described it, it doesn't look so different from just racing against random friends.

I think we can do every kind of tournament we want, but this lack of organization makes me find it not very attractive.
Anyway, until I decide (yes it's just a laziness matter) to propose my own league rules, I don't see why I shouldn't race against my pals on VCF, even without rules, so here I am.

Absolutely YES about tracking people who win (but I would use a normal tournament points-system), and time would be (GMT):
17-19
20 ad libitum, on every day of the week, but NO fridays/saturdays.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Originally Posted by neuzd

Ok, here's some thoughts about the format you proposed.
In the way you described it, it doesn't look so different from just racing against random friends.

I think we can do every kind of tournament we want, but this lack of organization makes me find it not very attractive.

There's not much to organize for Mario Kart Wii besides what I did. If I started forcing everyone to play on one track every week, people might get mad and not want to play because of the selected track or because of the format. And if we started getting really technical like 'only bikes this day' or 'only karts this day', someone might not read the thread for that day and come in at the last minute riding a kart/bike ruining the event.

But its just like the Smash Bros League. If everyone signs up and these 'simple' rules work out and everyone for the first few weeks is on board, we can start doing more elaborate things. I already had plans. Even doing Battle mode and stuff. But the most important thing is to start playing. And what Mario Kart Wii allows us to do is play 8-12 people all at the same time. I hope we can do it!

[Kevin]

Instead of one race how bout a whole cup?

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

I like the idea of racing a Cup once or twice a week, keeping track of final scores (the in-game scores) over a month or more on a big leaderboard.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

I thought of doing cups too. And if more people want to do it, I'm all for it. The problem with that is, there's no way I can see for selecting 'Cups' in the Online section so we'd all have to select the same 4 levels in succession for that day. Since the computer randomly picks a stage between all 8 (or however many) people that are playing. Just like in the Brawl online mode, everyone would have to pick say, Luigi Circuit for the first match, then Moo Moo farms for the second, then Mushroom Gorge for the third and Toad’s Factory for the fourth. Sounds easy, but when you throw 8 people into the mix and one or two of them didn’t get the memo…

For keeping track of scores, that’s simple enough. However, I’d most likely only keep track of who came in spots 1-4 or top 1-5 in each race. Because, when you’re online, the game automatically exits the screen that shows who ranked where at the end of the race pretty quickly. Like in 5-10 seconds. And if we miss any one race with 8-12 people on the line, then the point of having the scoring is pointless. That’s why I originally asked if people wanted it in or not.

[The shoemaker]

It seams like you should have made a Mario Kart Wii organization thread first

But I don't have the game but may I pitch in a idea? I think you should do it kinda in a way I did it. By everyone PMing you when your gonna race and such. And at the beginning of the week you would tell everyone by a PM, who they are racing, what tracks to use, and or saying what Karts or bikes to use.

But I can't suggest much since I've never played the game.

[neuzd]

Actually the multiplayer in a room is always a cup, if you choose to race.
You have the normal ability to choose or randomize the track, but the scoring system is the same as the cup and you quit again to the room lobby after 4 races.

Sorry if this came to my mind just now.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Originally Posted by The shoemaker

It seams like you should have made a Mario Kart Wii organization thread first

Yeah, that's what this thread is. For people to sign up and for us to talk about how things should run. Then after everything is decided, I'll make a new thread with the final setup of how the League runs based on what we agreed to in here, times of when we play and listing of everyones codes. And it'll be the 'main' thread for people to post in for after the league starts.

Originally Posted by neuzd

Actually the multiplayer in a room is always a cup, if you choose to race.
You have the normal ability to choose or randomize the track, but the scoring system is the same as the cup and you quit again to the room lobby after 4 races.

Sorry if this came to my mind just now.

Now I'm just confused. All I know of in the way of scoring systems for online racing mode is the point system above and below 5000 points. They do have the placement system where you are trying to race to 1st place and when you go to the next race, you start at the spot you placed at. However, I've never been forced back to the lobby after 4 races. I've played 5+ games in single rooms before. Once connected to Jess on my friend list in a Worldwide matchup.

So you'll have to explain how the game can be set up to just do 4 cups. Although I would vote to not have that since I'd like to have more races after the initial 4 if people wanted to play more.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Kenryoku_Maxis

Now I'm just confused. All I know of in the way of scoring systems for online racing mode is the point system above and below 5000 points. They do have the placement system where you are trying to race to 1st place and when you go to the next race, you start at the spot you placed at.

Yeah, and you get points, right? 15 for first, 12 for second, 10 for third, etc. etc. etc. They cumulate for each race.

Originally Posted by Kenryoku_Maxis

So you'll have to explain how the game can be set up to just do 4 cups. Although I would vote to not have that since I'd like to have more races after the initial 4 if people wanted to play more.

Well, wouldn't you just press "start" (or whatever) again to continue through more races?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by neuzd

Actually the multiplayer in a room is always a cup, if you choose to race.
You have the normal ability to choose or randomize the track, but the scoring system is the same as the cup and you quit again to the room lobby after 4 races.

Sorry if this came to my mind just now.

Well, that takes care of that.

[neuzd]

Originally Posted by Kenryoku_Maxis

Yeah, that's what this thread is. For people to sign up and for us to talk about how things should run. Then after everything is decided, I'll make a new thread with the final setup of how the League runs based on what we agreed to in here, times of when we play and listing of everyones codes. And it'll be the 'main' thread for people to post in for after the league starts.



Now I'm just confused. All I know of in the way of scoring systems for online racing mode is the point system above and below 5000 points. They do have the placement system where you are trying to race to 1st place and when you go to the next race, you start at the spot you placed at. However, I've never been forced back to the lobby after 4 races. I've played 5+ games in single rooms before. Once connected to Jess on my friend list in a Worldwide matchup.

So you'll have to explain how the game can be set up to just do 4 cups. Although I would vote to not have that since I'd like to have more races after the initial 4 if people wanted to play more.

Just try setting up a room and you'll see what is it all about.
There's no challenge points in the rooms. Just the regular scoring system for the poisition you arrive: 15 pts for the first, 10 for the second and so on...
Didn't try the battle, all I know it's team based; most probably you're ggoing for a classic "best out of 3" battles.

[EDIT]
Do anyone sees why I didn't insist in organizing myself the SSBB tournaments? Because I don't know the game and until you know how it works it makes no sense to set up rules.
It's not a critic Ken, but you should have explored it a bit before deciding how to do it.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Yeah, and you get points, right? 15 for first, 12 for second, 10 for third, etc. etc. etc. They cumulate for each race.

No, you get a mixture of points that seems to change every time. Sometimes you can come in third and get +50 points, or you can come in 7th and get +5 points And the person in the lead usually gets 100-115 points for winning first place. Then sometimes you can come in 4th and lose 20 points when last race 4th place gained you a little. Its a different system.

Originally Posted by neuzd

Just try setting up a room and you'll see what is it all about.
There's no challenge points in the rooms. Just the regular scoring system for the poisition you arrive: 15 pts for the first, 10 for the second and so on...
Didn't try the battle, all I know it's team based; most probably you're ggoing for a classic "best out of 3" battles.

[EDIT]
Do anyone sees why I didn't insist in organizing myself the SSBB tournaments? Because I don't know the game and until you know how it works it makes no sense to set up rules.
It's not a critic Ken, but you should have explored it a bit before deciding how to do it.

I decided to just go with it because I never saw an option to just 'create your own room'. Even when I go to play the game myself, the only options I see are 'Racing' 5000cc and 'Battle' 5000cc. And I looked, both on the game and online for an options. Even when connecting to friends, we were still using the 5000 points system and connectiong to people across different regions and the world.

That was proof enough to me that the game wasn't using 'rooms' like in Brawl. If you found them, then please share how to set them up.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Kenryoku_Maxis

No, you get a mixture of points that seems to change every time. Sometimes you can come in third and get +50 points, or you can come in 7th and get +5 points And the person in the lead usually gets 100-115 points for winning first place. Then sometimes you can come in 4th and lose 20 points when last race 4th place gained you a little. Its a different system.

I've played exactly one online race, and I still experienced the normal positional rankings of 15 pts for 1st, 12 pts for 2nd, 10pts 3rd, etc.

I think what we should do is have a few online races with a bunch of us from the forum, and mess about with options to test things out before we finalize any league stuff.

[neuzd]

Originally Posted by Kenryoku_Maxis

No, you get a mixture of points that seems to change every time. Sometimes you can come in third and get +50 points, or you can come in 7th and get +5 points And the person in the lead usually gets 100-115 points for winning first place. Then sometimes you can come in 4th and lose 20 points when last race 4th place gained you a little. Its a different system.



I decided to just go with it because I never saw an option to just 'create your own room'. Even when I go to play the game myself, the only options I see are 'Racing' 5000cc and 'Battle' 5000cc. And I looked, both on the game and online for an options. Even when connecting to friends, we were still using the 5000 points system and connectiong to people across different regions and the world.

That was proof enough to me that the game wasn't using 'rooms' like in Brawl. If you found them, then please share how to set them up.

Nintendo Wi-fi Connection 1 player > Friends > Create a Room.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Originally Posted by neuzd

Nintendo Wi-fi Connection 1 player > Friends > Create a Room.

Found it. Kept overlooking it because I was skipping to the 'Find a Friend' option or looking to see if a Friend was on via the flashing icon.

Still, hope people will join up and vote for how they want to play despite my lack of knowing one method of setting up a room.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Yeah, I don't care how it's set up. I just wanna race. As long as we can figure a way of keeping track of standings. I love standings.

[neuzd]

Tonight I thought of what I think is a very good formula for a championship.
Do you want me to keep it separeted from this?

Otherwise I'm throwing in some details (very simple in reality):
every cup counts as an event in the championship and the winner of every cup receives 15 points, 10 points the 2nd and so on, exacltly like inside cups.
We race all 8 cups keeping track of this score and...well...the winner wins, the end.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

I really like that idea neuzd. (10 points is for 3rd, though, not 2nd.) That way we don't have to keep track of everyone's rankings on each track, just the final result from the cup. I'm assuming the game would pause on the results screen long enough for us to write the relative ranks down, eh?

[neuzd]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

I really like that idea neuzd. (10 points is for 3rd, though, not 2nd.) That way we don't have to keep track of everyone's rankings on each track, just the final result from the cup. I'm assuming the game would pause on the results screen long enough for us to write the relative ranks down, eh?

Yes, it needs a bit of discipline by everyone, also for not messing up when choosing the track, but it's all very simple and we need that everybody just pays attention at his own things.

And yes, the points are 15, 12, 10 and so on...when it's time we'll write them down correctly.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by neuzd

Yes, it needs a bit of discipline by everyone, also for not messing up when choosing the track, but it's all very simple and we need that everybody just pays attention at his own things.

Yep. Since all the matches should be scheduled/planned here at the forum in-thread beforehand anyway, everyone playing should know which stage to choose, etc.

If we're going to go with a firm schedule (which we kind of have to do to have so many people playing at the same time), then we should also allow for missed races. I.e. if a player misses a race, s/he just gets 0 points for that night.

[The shoemaker]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Yep. Since all the matches should be scheduled/planned here at the forum in-thread beforehand anyway, everyone playing should know which stage to choose, etc.

If we're going to go with a firm schedule (which we kind of have to do to have so many people playing at the same time), then we should also allow for missed races. I.e. if a player misses a race, s/he just gets 0 points for that night.

that's pretty unfair. what if a minute before someones match their baby falls off the couch and they have to race it to the hospital?
or if there are working late =p

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by The shoemaker

that's pretty unfair. what if a minute before someones match their baby falls off the couch and they have to race it to the hospital?
or if there are working late =p

I don't think it's unfair at all... it's not like there's a prize on the line or anything, it's just for fun. What do you think happens if you're registered in a sporting event and you don't show up? You lose! Besides, if we're having 8 events, then getting a 0 on one of them isn't going to be a huge deal. I fully expect to miss a couple of weeks, and I don't mind getting a 0.

Obviously, we'd try to schedule the matches for when the most people can make it.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Originally Posted by neuzd

Yes, it needs a bit of discipline by everyone, also for not messing up when choosing the track, but it's all very simple and we need that everybody just pays attention at his own things.

And yes, the points are 15, 12, 10 and so on...when it's time we'll write them down correctly.

Hence the other half of why I made my original rules, since the way the Brawl League has already been going, and the way I already predicted it was going (I was a big part of making the rules for that League remember), Putting your 'faith' in people that they always will follow instructions and do what they are told will fall apart in the first week.

That's why I kept the rules simple, without keeping rankings, about just using the random map option and just about getting people together each week to race. You're pretty much wanting to do the complete opposite and give everybody every option Mario Kart has plus get them to come into a thread multiple times a week and keep stats and scores. That's more dedication than most will want to do.

A few people might want to keep rankings and such, but not everyone. And some people might want to race on the track setup you have, but not everyone. It only takes one person to mess up the system. And that's what you need to think about. Its a compromise, and so the compromise might be that one or two people might be able to keep scores, but hoping everyone will on 'faith' is a pretty big call.

[neuzd]

Ok, we'll do another tournament then.
I perfectly see that someone may not like the formula.

The fact is that I don't see anything different than racing kown people instead of random ones, with your rules, so I don't find it very appealing.
And I don't see the need of any kind of organization then.

I'll just do another thread.
[EDIT]
Before spamming the forum, I'm waiting to see reactions about this.
Someone of those who agreed in the first place haven't returned yet to see how things are going.

[Tull]

Signs up for action.

[Trapster]

Hm, why not. I´m in. And it doesn´t really matter to me if we keep rankings or not. But it´d be more fun if we did.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

I disagree with neuzd in that I'd much rather race people I know than people I don't.

I agree with neuzd that a league with no standings, just to get together and race, seems kind of pointless because I can always just get together and race my buddies whenever.

In conclusion, I don't really mind whether we keep ranks or not—it'll be fun to get a bunch of people online racing—but without standings or rules it doesn't seem like something that has to be organized at all. We could just post in the main MKW thread and say "letz raec sumtiem yo!"

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Forget about it. It seems Neuzd wants to do it so bad and is already going to make a competing side tournament despite my having this threadopen to suggestions, along with taking over this thread. So nevermind about the whole thing.

I just wanted to get 8-12 people together in the same place to race. I don't know why we're going to have to have competing threads and other people feel like they need to be the ones taking over the organization of it. If someone else wants to run it, then fine. Go ahead if you want it so bad. But I said what I think would make it run more smoothly and I really hope you know what you’re doing. And I really hope you take the examples of how the Brawl League has been going as a model. (Not that the Brawl League is going bad mind, but just that any League is prone to have missed games or ways it can be improved so we can use it as a model).

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Were you actually planning on running something, or were you just taking suggestions and trying to get something set up?

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

I was going to run it after we got all the sign-ups done and set the rules down. But that was back when I thought the rules were just going to be something simple like either 8 people get on twice a week and just race or 8 people get one twice a week and we keep track of the people who come in places 1st through 4th and post the results on the site. Even one person could keep track of all that and in my view, Mario Kart isn't a real 'competitive' game.

Seems that isn't held by all.

[neuzd]

Originally Posted by Kenryoku_Maxis

Forget about it. It seems Neuzd wants to do it so bad and is already going to make a competing side tournament despite my having this threadopen to suggestions, along with taking over this thread. So nevermind about the whole thing.

You have some serious issue, Ken.
I began giving suggestions and then waited for people reaction. By far just Jogurt expressed interest in the formula I proposed, so before opening another thread, I considered wise to wait and see what the other users have to say.

This is the last time I'm being patient with you.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Originally Posted by neuzd

You have some serious issue, Ken.

This is the last time I'm being patient with you.

Whatever. Go make your tournament.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Kenryoku_Maxis

But that was back when I thought the rules were just going to be something simple like either 8 people get on twice a week and just race or 8 people get one twice a week and we keep track of the people who come in places 1st through 4th and post the results on the site.

I'll be more than willing to keep track of rankings for the races I take part in, kind of like what I'm doing for the Brawl league. It would just suck for me to miss a match and thus not get the rankings for that match. Well, suck for me, but it seems like not that many people care.

[Trapster]

Keeping track of rankings makes it feel more like an actual competition than just racing. More fun, IMO.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

I disagree with neuzd in that I'd much rather race people I know than people I don't.

I agree with neuzd that a league with no standings, just to get together and race, seems kind of pointless because I can always just get together and race my buddies whenever.

In conclusion, I don't really mind whether we keep ranks or not—it'll be fun to get a bunch of people online racing—but without standings or rules it doesn't seem like something that has to be organized at all. We could just post in the main MKW thread and say "letz raec sumtiem yo!"

Neither do I.

[The shoemaker]

Originally Posted by Kenryoku_Maxis

I was going to run it after we got all the sign-ups done and set the rules down. But that was back when I thought the rules were just going to be something simple like either 8 people get on twice a week and just race or 8 people get one twice a week and we keep track of the people who come in places 1st through 4th and post the results on the site. Even one person could keep track of all that and in my view, Mario Kart isn't a real 'competitive' game.

Seems that isn't held by all.

People like big explanations. No not really. But the rules you put down, sounded more like random matches, just like if someone wanted to play you right now yo would use the same rules. In the Brawl league, we went over many different rules and possibilities before we find a solution that attracted most people. I still don't think the Brawl rules were too great, they could use a lot of improvement.

and screw the thing where if you miss a race you get zero, some people will just think, yeah oh well it's just a zero, I'll come by next week. You should have a 3 strikes your out rule or something.

But I shouldn't be talking, because my league isn't do that great, and i've never even played mario kart Wii.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by The shoemaker

and screw the thing where if you miss a race you get zero, some people will just think, yeah oh well it's just a zero, I'll come by next week. You should have a 3 strikes your out rule or something.

But that's even more punishing, because it kicks someone out of the league. At least by just giving them a 0, they can play as much as they want to get as many points as they care about. Remember, sometimes the people who actually play are going to get 0s, too, if they come in last place!