Say your thoughts on Brawl.

[DEMON212]

I know we have a Brawl post, but that was for like build up and people were complaining about people saying spoilers and everything. So this is for your thoughts having actually played the game, and it WILL contain spoilers.

The fighting part of SSBB.

Fighting feels… Different.

Link on SSBM could fight, now they've toned him down a bit and ruined his Boomerang. He's still a good fighter, but not as good as he was. Toon Link is very similar to Young Link, which is good as he's all I ever played as. But again, he still doesn't feel just right.

Marth, what the hell have they done to Marth? Ike is amazing, Marth is really bad now. WHY?!

Jigglypuff, every year I think "Why?" and then someone gets her in a random and I realise why. Because it's really fun to just take the **** sometimes. I actually won with her tonight. And Yoshi, which both times were nothing short of a miracle, seeing as they're possible the 2 worst SSB-ers ever.

Although we do have Diddy Kong now, don't we? Something needed to bring me onto the newbies, so DK seems a good place to start.

DK is so bad he's not worth mentioning. Every time I get him in a random, I jump off the edge until I'm dead, as I have more fun watching than fighting with him.

Snake is really mind boggling. His specials are brilliant, his smash attacks are brilliant, his Final Smash is brilliant. But his normal attacks are very hard to link together in some sort of fighting combo. He feels very much like Donkey Kong, all power and no style. Which is a damned shame.

Lucas, did we really need another useless clone? Ness has always felt like a n00b's fighter (PK Fire), but I understand why he's there. Lucas though, he's got good attacks, but terrible specials and a terrible Final Smash.

The Starfox 3. Keep Wolf, jack Fox and Falco. I don’t like the new Fox and the new Falco, Wolf’s pretty cool though.

So once again, SSB is plagued with useless dead weight. But while I’m not going to mention all 35,I have to say... Lucario over Mewtwo, WTF?! But we do have some real gems. So overall it's a good balance

Classic.

I like the new classic mode being longer and I love how it's pretty much remained the same. It's exactly what I wanted. Although I dislike how instead of everyone having unique target tests, every has the same 5. I also dislike them having items on, not only do they often get in the way, they scream "n00b!".

SSE.

I hated the beginning, and I don't think the fact that I was on co-op helped, because the camera only follows one of you, so you're constantly having to stop your bud from dieing by keeping up with him/falling back to let him keep up with you, and as you share lives, you need to do that.

Playing on single player, I really enjoyed it. It really does feel like a Kirby game. I thought some enemies were unnecessarily annoying though. Not hard, just bloody irritating. I think saying the cut scenes are funny though, is a bit of a stretch. Yeah a few are, but that's all.

I also like the boss battles and the overall end boss. Took me 3 attempts to beat him as I didn't know the fighters I'd chosen were quite probably some of the worst I could've chosen to fight him.

Single player unlockables.

I think there's some really cool unlockables for 1p, but I would've liked to have seen more events. 41 compared to Melee's 51 seems a bit... Crap.

Especially as they can now be given there own difficulty (Way to take the fun out of it). I remember being stuck on event 51 for ages, but what you got for doing it was worth it, now it's just "Oh, switch it to easy *beats it* there we go, new stage"

2-4p.

Great! It’s really fun and really addictive. The smash balls are a source of great fun, because everyone goes for them, which can really add to the fun. I was really worried that they'd ruin the fighting, but they've gave it that extra something.

New items and stages.

I like a few of them, but think a load of them are useless filler. Quite a few stages are now switched off thanks to the random switch and a lot of the new items are too.

I just wish you could switch the items off for the 1p too, as I've been killed so many times because of one of them spawning where I was attacking.

The Melee stages are a nice touch, but why we got Onett over Fourside is beyond me. Also, we have Flat Zone 2, but no Flat Zone It was one of my favourite stages. At least we got Big Blue

I think quite a few of the new stages are pretty bad though. I hate the Ice Climbers’ stage, and I hate DK's take on the Ice Climber stage. I'd have rather have had the old Ice Climbers' stage. Elecktroplankton is pretty irritating to fight in. And Luigi's Mansion feels like they made it in 2 minutes. But again, I'm not going to go through them all.

Masterpieces.

Waste of space.

Online.

Hearing to many bad things to even bother wasting my time on it.

Stage creator and everything else that I can remember.

I Love the coin game, I love all the huge lists of things to read, I love the stage builder although I wish that you were able to put in some of the more advanced things. I don't mean like adding Pokemon to reverse the controls, but adding things like the pipes from Mario Bros. Would be nice. And I love the menus and other things that I can’t remember.

Sum up.

All in all it's an amazing game, easily the best on the Wii. It's great fun, it's really long and it's got some amazing new things. But I personally think that Melee has the edge over this, when it comes to the fighting and challenge aspects.

I'd give it an 8.5-10 (Although this isn't a review, I'm just saying).

Please remember though that these are MY thoughts.

[Serge.EXE]

I'm not going to give a whole mini-review, as I have a full review up on the Blogs.

I just wanted to mention that the With Anyone-Online seems to be ironed out. I played a good many matches tonight, and actually had fun.

Got a good bit of footage from Replays as well.

Makes the game that much more playable

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by Serge.EXE

I'm not going to give a whole mini-review, as I have a full review up on the Blogs.

I just wanted to mention that the With Anyone-Online seems to be ironed out. I played a good many matches tonight, and actually had fun.

Got a good bit of footage from Replays as well.

Makes the game that much more playable

Might give it a go then. When I get sick of VS-ing my budss, until then smack talk wins

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Online is awesome.

Single player is awesome.

Stage builder is great but could have been better with some more options for details and backgrounds.

Music is awesome.

SSE is fun and hilarious, but it's not a good platformer by any stretch. The gameplay is unintuitive and uneven, etc.

Overall, it's a fantastic game for what it's meant for -- fighting like crazy! I like classic mode, most of the events, and even the stadium has kept me busy from time to time.

[SegaFan]

Excelent game, very high quality. Whether you like the gameplay or not the selection of characters and stages are excelent and make it real "tribute" to videogaming. I think every gamer should play it. The best part for me is the music, so many classic game remixes, it's worth buying just for the music.

[Kevin]

The only complaints I can think of right now is that many of the events in my opinion, weren't as exciting as the melee ones. Some of them were extremely easy. Other than that the masterpieces and chronicles sections are a huge waste of space. They could of used those two for more trophies or something.

[Pegasus]

Frankly, while it is quite an enjoyable game, I wouldn't mark it as Wii's greatest. After a while it gets a bit repetitive. Better played in short bursts. Keep in mind, this is my first entry into this franchise, so I'm not quite obsessed with it like some of you guys. Maybe once I play it more and find the time to learn more about the various characters' intricacies.

While random matches online can be good fun, friend matches will always be better. It's just that much more satisfying to beat up on someone you know. I'm sure it's an awesome game when playing with buddies in the same room...

[TwinCross]

I think it's the best Smash yet. When I heard it was going to be a bit slower than Melee, I was kinda dissapointed. But now, I think it makes the fights a lot more tatical, and more satisfying.

Not much to say except I think it improves upon Melee in just about every aspect.

[Pit 42]

My only complaints are:

-Characters can be unlocked a little too easily
-I expected the roster to deliver a little more (Krystal instead of Wolf, Ganondorf with a sword, no more clones), but I'm quite used to the roster now.
-Lag is a little distracting in online mode

Still, I give it 10/10. It's as close as video games get to perfection. But that's coming froma Nintendo fanboy, of course.

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by SegaFan

Excelent game, very high quality. Whether you like the gameplay or not the selection of characters and stages are excelent and make it real "tribute" to videogaming. I think every gamer should play it. The best part for me is the music, so many classic game remixes, it's worth buying just for the music.

I'd agree, but so far I've yet to hear Saria's Song I hope it's on there. If not, it's still a great O.S.T, but it sould've been better. If it is on, then BEST SOUNDTRACK EVA!

Originally Posted by Kevin

The only complaints I can think of right now is that many of the events in my opinion, weren't as exciting as the melee ones. Some of them were extremely easy. Other than that the masterpieces and chronicles sections are a huge waste of space. They could of used those two for more trophies or something.

I like the chronicles from the point of, it's good to see what could come to the VC. But a lil more info on the games would've been nice. Maybe thay could've made them like the trophies, collect a page and get a new game with tons of info on it

Originally Posted by Pegasus

Frankly, while it is quite an enjoyable game, I wouldn't mark it as Wii's greatest. After a while it gets a bit repetitive. Better played in short bursts. Keep in mind, this is my first entry into this franchise, so I'm not quite obsessed with it like some of you guys. Maybe once I play it more and find the time to learn more about the various characters' intricacies.

While random matches online can be good fun, friend matches will always be better. It's just that much more satisfying to beat up on someone you know. I'm sure it's an awesome game when playing with buddies in the same room...

What games have you played for the Wii that I haven't

I think it'll grow on you, because SSB took me a while to get truly hooked.

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by TwinCross

I think it's the best Smash yet. When I heard it was going to be a bit slower than Melee, I was kinda dissapointed. But now, I think it makes the fights a lot more tatical, and more satisfying.

Not much to say except I think it improves upon Melee in just about every aspect.

I can kinda see what you mean, but I think that SSBB Turbo would've been nice. So that that way, users could choose there speed, just like in SFII

Originally Posted by Pit 42

My only complaints are:

-Characters can be unlocked a little too easily
-I expected the roster to deliver a little more (Krystal instead of Wolf, Ganondorf with a sword, no more clones), but I'm quite used to the roster now.
-Lag is a little distracting in online mode

Still, I give it 10/10. It's as close as video games get to perfection. But that's coming froma Nintendo fanboy, of course.

Agreed. Although I like Wolf. Krystal instead of Falco though Because they've ruined Falco IMO

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Falco is awesome. I like him more than the other two Fox squad.

Also, someone said there are clones in this game? The closest I can think of are Link and Toon Link, and they're drastically different in terms of speed and weight class.

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Falco is awesome. I like him more than the other two Fox squad.

Also, someone said there are clones in this game? The closest I can think of are Link and Toon Link, and they're drastically different in terms of speed and weight class.

Yeah, the clones in this are less clone-ish, but you can still tell.

I dislike his new attacks and his new shield. I can't get that damned to to do anything because he kicks it out

Also Falco on Very Hard was the most evil CPU ever on SSBM, but now...

[The shoemaker]

I'm surprised how much I like this game, I'm not usally into fighters, but that's the great thing about Brawl, anyone can play, and If they like fighters or not, they'll still love this game.

The gameplay improved on melee. Maybe I'm just saying that because I haven't played melee in three years, but my opinion stays the same.

The character list, if you think about it, is about as good as it could get. R.O.B seams a little odd to put in, but he's still good. But can anyone really think of any character that almost everyone would know to put in Brawl. I can't so I think the list is great.

Oniline is pretty fun, even spectating is fun. It's fun actually fighting real people. Because all humans fight differntly from the computers so it's a nice change. The only problem is lag. The more people, means more lag. But it mostly only happens in the beginning so it's not that bad.

Classic is fun also. But it seams like I can always predict whats gonna happen. First fight on elden bridge, then DK and diddy, then pokemon, then target5 smash...etc. But it's still very fun. It's also very challenging, since I can barely beat the first fight when put on very hard.

The SSE is just plain awesome. Seeing all of my favorite characters put together, in a fighting platforming game with crazy cut sceens. It's just insain. Co-op is alright, but it's not true co-op. But it's better than nothing. My big complant about the SSE, is that you can unlock all of the characters just from playing it. Which I really hate, because I want to play it, but I don't want to unlock all of the characters.

Stage builder, is pretty good. a bit limited but still good. You can unlock new parts and stuff, but I don't know if it's true yet, but you can only pick between 3 backgrounds. But If your creative you can make some pretty nifty stuff.

masterpices, are a nice little add in. But 40 seconds for some games are pretty cheap. and the cronicles thing, kinda a waste of space.

Trophies and such, well there's not much to say about them.

The coin launcher is very fun. Much better than melees coin lottery thing.

Music, speaks for itself

And all the other such things are just great.

One of the best games I've ever played, and all wii owners should get it.

9.8/10

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by The shoemaker

I'm surprised how much I like this game, I'm not usally into fighters, but that's the great thing about Brawl, anyone can play, and If they like fighters or not, they'll still love this game.

The gameplay improved on melee. Maybe I'm just saying that because I haven't played melee in three years, but my opinion stays the same.

The character list, if you think about it, is about as good as it could get. R.O.B seams a little odd to put in, but he's still good. But can anyone really think of any character that almost everyone would know to put in Brawl. I can't so I think the list is great.

Oniline is pretty fun, even spectating is fun. It's fun actually fighting real people. Because all humans fight differntly from the computers so it's a nice change. The only problem is lag. The more people, means more lag. But it mostly only happens in the beginning so it's not that bad.

Classic is fun also. But it seams like I can always predict whats gonna happen. First fight on elden bridge, then DK and diddy, then pokemon, then target5 smash...etc. But it's still very fun. It's also very challenging, since I can barely beat the first fight when put on very hard.

The SSE is just plain awesome. Seeing all of my favorite characters put together, in a fighting platforming game with crazy cut sceens. It's just insain. Co-op is alright, but it's not true co-op. But it's better than nothing. My big complant about the SSE, is that you can unlock all of the characters just from playing it. Which I really hate, because I want to play it, but I don't want to unlock all of the characters.

Stage builder, is pretty good. a bit limited but still good. You can unlock new parts and stuff, but I don't know if it's true yet, but you can only pick between 3 backgrounds. But If your creative you can make some pretty nifty stuff.

masterpices, are a nice little add in. But 40 seconds for some games are pretty cheap. and the cronicles thing, kinda a waste of space.

Trophies and such, well there's not much to say about them.

The coin launcher is very fun. Much better than melees coin lottery thing.

Music, speaks for itself

And all the other such things are just great.

One of the best games I've ever played, and all wii owners should get it.

9.8/10

Mewtwo.

You... DON'T? Want to unlock them???????

Try playing over 1,000 coins in an hour. OW MY HAND! I still love it though. It just sucks that you can only get 99 trophies in one sitting.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

On the suggestions for new characters front...

Little Mac really should be upgraded from trophy to full-fledged character.

3rd party: Mega Man and Simon Belmont.

Ridley?

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

On the suggestions for new characters front...

Little Mac really should be upgraded from trophy to full-fledged character.

3rd party: Mega Man and Simon Belmont.

Ridley?

Agree with all. As long as MM an SB are better than SS and S.

I like Sonic, but he doesn't really "fit" if you know what I mean.

[The shoemaker]

Originally Posted by DEMON212

Mewtwo.

You... DON'T? Want to unlock them???????

Try playing over 1,000 coins in an hour. OW MY HAND! I still love it though. It just sucks that you can only get 99 trophies in one sitting.

Yes I want to unlock them, but not in that way. that's taking the easy way out. Because I like it to be a surprise, and see If I'm worthy of that character by fighting him, and seeing if I can beat him. Not play the SSE for an hour, unlocking 3 characters without even having to fight him.

I was seriously thinking of erasing my brawl data so I could unlock the characters the "right" way.

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by The shoemaker

Yes I want to unlock them, but not in that way. that's taking the easy way out. Because I like it to be a surprise, and see If I'm worthy of that character by fighting him, and seeing if I can beat him. Not play the SSE for an hour, unlocking 3 characters without even having to fight him.

I was seriously thinking of erasing my brawl data so I could unlock the characters the "right" way.

Just whack the Brawl mode on and make them a lvl9.

[SegaFan]

I've just completed The Subspace Emissary. It took so long because I've been playing Sega Superstars Tennis this week as well.

The rest of this post will contain minor spoilers for the story.

I was disappointed that Sonic didn't make more of an appearance. I was waiting the whole game for the Sonic themed stage and side story but it didn't happen. I really enjoyed the story right up until the closing credits, it was one of the best 10 hours of gaming I've ever had, but I didn't expect it to end there because I was still expecting a Sonic stage.

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by SegaFan

I've just completed The Subspace Emissary. It took so long because I've been playing Sega Superstars Tennis this week as well.

The rest of this post will contain minor spoilers for the story.

I was disappointed that Sonic didn't make more of an appearance. I was waiting the whole game for the Sonic themed stage and side story but it didn't happen. I really enjoyed the story right up until the closing credits, it was one of the best 10 hours of gaming I've ever had, but I didn't expect it to end there because I was still expecting a Sonic stage.

Yep, another reason why I don't think he fits. Because he feels as if he's just been shoved in there with not afterthought. IMO Green Hill is awful. It's liked a more cramped Yoshi's Island (Melee) but minus the blocks. He has no SSE story. No decent alt costumes (It's all wrist band changes, WTH?! Where's the Shadow costume? Peach has Daisy, Wario has 15 one of which is a Mawiro costume). No themed items, no masterpieces and few trophies.

Which is a shame, because he's a canny fighter.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

I think Sonic is fine. I actually like his stage, especially since it comes with sweet original tunes. His colour swaps are no more or less offensive than Yoshi's or Kirby's. Sure, he has a stupid role in SSE, but I think we can all agree that stellar plotting isn't one of that game's strong points anyway. I couldn't care less about themed items; don't know about trophies; and I agree that it's a shame that Sonic 2 isn't in the Masterpieces section.

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

I think Sonic is fine. I actually like his stage, especially since it comes with sweet original tunes. His colour swaps are no more or less offensive than Yoshi's or Kirby's.Sure, he has a stupid role in SSE, but I think we can all agree that stellar plotting isn't one of that game's strong points anyway. I couldn't care less about themed items; don't know about trophies; and I agree that it's a shame that Sonic 2 isn't in the Masterpieces section.

Yeah, but we could've had a better stage with those same tunes.

And at least they make sence. There are alot of different coloured Yoshi's, and adding features to Kirby would confuse people (For eg. Adding Sword Kirby, people would think they were Link Kirby).

I don't think it's one of the companies strong points, let alone the game's.

[SegaFan]

Sure, he has a stupid role in SSE, but I think we can all agree that stellar plotting isn't one of that game's strong points anyway.

Apparently they got a guy who worked on Final Fantasy to write the story of SSE. Considering how difficult it would be to write a story that involves so many different characters and still makes sence, I thought the plot was very good except for the last 5 minutes.

Most of all I liked how each character had their own themed platforming levels and sub story, there's never been a game like it, but that was all completely ruined by not having the same treatment for Sonic.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by DEMON212

Yeah, but we could've a better stage with those same tunes.

Chalk it up to personal preference I guess. Sonic's stage is one of the better ones I think. I like the three different crumble zones in the centre better than the blocks.

Originally Posted by DEMON212

And at least they make sence. There are alot of different coloured Yoshi's, and adding features to Kirby would confuse people (For eg. Adding Sword Kirby, people would think they were Link Kirby).

I'm just saying I have no problem with colour swaps. I do think a black Sonic would have been good, though, for those who like to play evil colour schemes.

Originally Posted by DEMON212

I don't think it's one of the companies strong points, let alone the game's.

Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. I attribute it more to the game, especially considering how much content it has and how mediocre almost everything about the SSE gameplay is.

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Chalk it up to personal preference I guess. Sonic's stage is one of the better ones I think. I like the three different crumble zones in the centre better than the blocks.


I'm just saying I have no problem with colour swaps. I do think a black Sonic would have been good, though, for those who like to play evil colour schemes.


Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. I attribute it more to the game, especially considering how much content it has and how mediocre almost everything about the SSE gameplay is.

Crumble zones? I've played on that stage for about 30 mins and it's never changed once, other than that round ball checkpoint thing that keeps appearing.

Never played an FE. Wanted to get into the GBA ones, but everytime I bought one it turned out to be a bootleg that almost smegged my NDS.

[The shoemaker]

Originally Posted by DEMON212

Crumble zones? I've played on that stage for about 30 mins and it's never changed once, other than that round ball checkpoint thing that keeps appearing.

Never played an FE. Wanted to get into the GBA ones, but everytime I bought one it turned out to be a bootleg that almost smegged my NDS.

Yeah in the middle of the stage it will break, so that there is a big hole in the middle.

Anyways I've just finished the SSE. really great I loved it. But the last five minutes or so were kind of cheap. I mean sonic just comes out of no where. It didn't even show a story of how sonic got there, just like all of the other characters. When you get to 30% in the game it should have started sonics story, and then as you progress, it shows you how he got in the Subspace, and how he got to Tabuu first.

But other than that it was great. The last speech thing (or first speech since no one talks in the game) where it says I've herd a legend of that person, and now we shine even more in combat, I thought that was pretty cool. But I was surprised that Jiggly puff, toon link and star wolf weren't in it. But I'm also happy because now I can unlock them on my own. So the Subspace was actually pretty good I liked it a lot. But the ending seamed just a little rushed.

After beating it, I must have unlocked about 20 things. But I unlocked a bunch of songs, but I can't listen to them, do i need to unlock a new stage to listen to those songs. Oh and I beat the SSE at 84%. Is there any reason to try to get 100% percent?

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Demon: there are three separate areas in the middle of the stage that will crumble down if you do enough damage to them, which can lead to some different combinations of holes in the middle of the stage.

Shoe: Wolf, Toon Link, and Jiggly are all in SSE, you just have to go back and get them in their respective levels. Also, to answer another one of your questions, I believe you unlock something in the Challenges section for completing SSE 100%. I'm at 99% right now (just have the Subspace stages left to finish).

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by The shoemaker

Yeah in the middle of the stage it will break, so that there is a big hole in the middle.

Anyways I've just finished the SSE. really great I loved it. But the last five minutes or so were kind of cheap. I mean sonic just comes out of no where. It didn't even show a story of how sonic got there, just like all of the other characters. When you get to 30% in the game it should have started sonics story, and then as you progress, it shows you how he got in the Subspace, and how he got to Tabuu first.

But other than that it was great. The last speech thing (or first speech since no one talks in the game) where it says I've herd a legend of that person, and now we shine even more in combat, I thought that was pretty cool. But I was surprised that Jiggly puff, toon link and star wolf weren't in it. But I'm also happy because now I can unlock them on my own. So the Subspace was actually pretty good I liked it a lot. But the ending seamed just a little rushed.

After beating it, I must have unlocked about 20 things. But I unlocked a bunch of songs, but I can't listen to them, do i need to unlock a new stage to listen to those songs. Oh and I beat the SSE at 84%. Is there any reason to try to get 100% percent?

You are supposed to get something pretty cool for 100, I forget what though. I'll goto GFAQS later.

They are in it, but if you want to unlock them the right way, don't replay the SSE until you've done so.

I finished it with 93 and haven't gone back to it yet. Can't be botherd with raking around every level for trophies just yet.

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Demon: there are three separate areas in the middle of the stage that will crumble down if you do enough damage to them, which can lead to some different combinations of holes in the middle of the stage.

Shoe: Wolf, Toon Link, and Jiggly are all in SSE, you just have to go back and get them in their respective levels. Also, to answer another one of your questions, I believe you unlock something in the Challenges section for completing SSE 100%. I'm at 99% right now (just have the Subspace stages left to finish).

Ok then, so how exactly do you damage them? And more to the point, what the hell is there to damage?

When we did play on it, we have been playing with the likes of Ike who has that uber powerful ground smash and Solid Snake whom has those mines. And since there aren't any platforms on it, that's the only thing I can imagine that you have to damage. So how come we haven't had this happen yet?

I haven't played on it in ages because after playing several matches we all deemed it crap and thus disabled it from the random.

Basically we though "Well if you're going to have a boring do nothing single platform stage, might as well play a fun one like Final Destination". Because FD is level ground so it's fun.

Later on I'm gonna put a 30 minute timed match on and just hit the ground.

[The shoemaker]

Originally Posted by DEMON212

You are supposed to get something pretty cool for 100, I forget what though. I'll goto GFAQS later.

They are in it, but if you want to unlock them the right way, don't replay the SSE until you've done so.

I finished it with 93 and haven't gone back to it yet. Can't be botherd with raking around every level for trophies just yet.



Ok then, so how exactly do you damage them? And more to the point, what the hell is there to damage?

When we did play on it, we have been playing with the likes of Ike who has that uber powerful ground smash and Solid Snake whom has those mines. And since there aren't any platforms on it, that's the only thing I can imagine that you have to damage. So how come we haven't had this happen yet?

I haven't played on it in ages because after playing several matches we all deemed it crap and thus disabled it from the random.

Basically we though "Well if you're going to have a boring do nothing single platform stage, might as well play a fun one like Final Destination". Because FD is level ground so it's fun.

Later on I'm gonna put a 30 minute timed match on and just hit the ground.

You can chose which stages come when selecting random? How? Anyways I'm gonna play the sonic stage now, and see how it breaks. It breaks every time I play it, but i don't know why it does.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Demon, try spamming DK's down-B in the middle of the stage. I've never had a problem breaking the ground.

Shoe, once you've unlocked Extra Rules (which I think is 200KOs) and all the stages, you get the ability to turn individual stages on or off in the randomizer.

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Demon, try spamming DK's down-B in the middle of the stage. I've never had a problem breaking the ground.

Shoe, once you've unlocked Extra Rules (which I think is 200KOs) and all the stages, you get the ability to turn individual stages on or off in the randomizer.

Had a 4 Ike battle. I now think it's worse, because the sections that break are the only sections where it's possible to have a fair fight. The person higher up is always struggling to manage to connect with normal attacks, and that's why I dislike Green and Yoshi Melee.

I still can't believe that they cut Flat Zone 1 but kept 2 and they cut Poke Floats

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

The game's not about fair fights, it's about strategy and using terrain and items to your advantage! Smash that ground away and then dump your opponents on in.

Seriously, though, I understand that everyone has his/her own fight style preferences. I for one can't stand the forced-scrolling stages because they're not as amenable to fighting as they are to running and surviving.

[The shoemaker]

I also don't really like the side scrolling stages. You don't get enough time to fight, it's more of can you stay on the top of the screen. The DK one is fun, but not one of my favorites. I always dislike the stages where the camera doesn't move. Like Nesses stage where the camera is so far out and you see your character well.

I've just unlocked toon link, pirate ship, and Mario bros. Toon link is awesome, he's just like link but faster, has a better arrow and boomerang, And I like his attacks better. I didn't like how Links up smash was a bunch of slow sword slashes. I like toon Links up smash because it's just one hit. And his up B move is better. I don't think he's as strong, but I like him better.

The pirate ship stage is one of my favorites. At first glance it looked like it was going to be just like melees Rainbow cruse stage. But No it's a lot better. One thing is that The king of red lions comes and you can battle on him, I guess it's because of so many memories that I like that part. The background is just like wind waker, and I feel like I'm playing wind waker all over again. Those platforms in the sea shoot bombs at you, so you need some strategy to dodge them. A hurricane comes and takes you up, and it changes the gravity a bit. And I thought it was really cool that the ship crashes into a rock and you can fight on it. And how it goes from night to day, and how you can swim, it's just one of my favorite stages ever. And it's music is wonderful.

The super Mario Bros. stage is average. It's one of the stages that annoy me because of the camera thing. But the music is good, and brings back memories. I like the retro koopas and stuff on the stage that you can throw at people, and how when you hit the ceiling it bounces up, just like the real game. The background is dull though. I guess they were just trying to keep the classic look. But all in all it's a pretty good stage.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

I too love the Pirate Ship stage. It's one of my favourites for pretty much all of the reasons you mentioned, plus the bright colours, cute art, and the lovely music. I'm not a big fan of the retro stages like Mario Bros. and 75m either. While they're a nice concept, and they're pretty funny (and have some great NES tunes), they're just not very well suited to good brawls.

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

The game's not about fair fights, it's about strategy and using terrain and items to your advantage! Smash that ground away and then dump your opponents on in.

Seriously, though, I understand that everyone has his/her own fight style preferences. I for one can't stand the forced-scrolling stages because they're not as amenable to fighting as they are to running and surviving.

True SSB-ers no that it is about fair fights and a persons skill.

Try fighting on FD with no items on and both of you using the same fighter (One that both of you are skilled with).

In the 200+ hours of SSBM that I racked up after 18 months, at least 100 were Young Link VS Young Link on FD with no items. 2 minutes. Pure fun.

I do enjoy the standard style of battling, but prefer it when there's 3 or more players.

But as you say, everyone is different. Although it's like saying that Street Fighter would be better with items IMO.

Also, how can you have a stragetic battle with items that appear randomly?

On SSBM I once got 10 amazing Poke balls that fell to my feet, whereas Panda got 3 Goldeens. I won after getting 5+ Poke kills, so did I win because I was better?

Originally Posted by The shoemaker

I also don't really like the side scrolling stages. You don't get enough time to fight, it's more of can you stay on the top of the screen. The DK one is fun, but not one of my favorites. I always dislike the stages where the camera doesn't move. Like Nesses stage where the camera is so far out and you see your character well.

I've just unlocked toon link, pirate ship, and Mario bros. Toon link is awesome, he's just like link but faster, has a better arrow and boomerang, And I like his attacks better. I didn't like how Links up smash was a bunch of slow sword slashes. I like toon Links up smash because it's just one hit. And his up B move is better. I don't think he's as strong, but I like him better.

The pirate ship stage is one of my favorites. At first glance it looked like it was going to be just like melees Rainbow cruse stage. But No it's a lot better. One thing is that The king of red lions comes and you can battle on him, I guess it's because of so many memories that I like that part. The background is just like wind waker, and I feel like I'm playing wind waker all over again. Those platforms in the sea shoot bombs at you, so you need some strategy to dodge them. A hurricane comes and takes you up, and it changes the gravity a bit. And I thought it was really cool that the ship crashes into a rock and you can fight on it. And how it goes from night to day, and how you can swim, it's just one of my favorite stages ever. And it's music is wonderful.

The super Mario Bros. stage is average. It's one of the stages that annoy me because of the camera thing. But the music is good, and brings back memories. I like the retro koopas and stuff on the stage that you can throw at people, and how when you hit the ceiling it bounces up, just like the real game. The background is dull though. I guess they were just trying to keep the classic look. But all in all it's a pretty good stage.

Agreed, Song Of Storms FTW!

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

I too love the Pirate Ship stage. It's one of my favourites for pretty much all of the reasons you mentioned, plus the bright colours, cute art, and the lovely music. I'm not a big fan of the retro stages like Mario Bros. and 75m either. While they're a nice concept, and they're pretty funny (and have some great NES tunes), they're just not very well suited to good brawls.

Agreed.

BTW, they're in for the daft battles. Try 1 stock 300% matches. So much fun on those.

If you want, I'll send you a replay of 2 where inside 3 seconds I had killed all 3 brothers/mates on Smashville with Bowser and I forget which with Jiggly.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by DEMON212

True SSB-ers no that it is about fair fights and a persons skill.

Try fighting on FD with no items on and both of you using the same fighter (One that both of you are skilled with).

I'm going to ignore the baseless and semi-elitist introductory value judgment and get to the main points. Fair fights and skill are important, and satisfying, yes, and they're one area of the game's focus. I don't deny that 1-on-1 FD fights are pure fun (they are). But to say that's the whole purpose of the game is obviously simplistic.

Originally Posted by DEMON212

But as you say, everyone is different. Although it's like saying that Street Fighter would be better with items IMO.

It's not like saying that. Street Fighter doesn't have items, but everything I've been talking about is already built right into Brawl from the start.

Originally Posted by DEMON212

Also, how can you have a stragetic battle with items that appear randomly?

Luck is a factor. Just like in a game like poker. There is a measure of skill in how a player can adapt to changing, adverse circumstances. By playing nothing but 1-on-1 FD matches with no items, this is an area of player skill that goes untested.

Originally Posted by DEMON212

On SSBM I once got 10 amazing Poke balls that fell to my feet, whereas Panda got 3 Goldeens. I won after getting 5+ Poke kills, so did I win because I was better?

Again, my original point had nothing to do with who is a better player, so you're taking these points down a tangent. My point was that the game promotes tons of wildly different fighting styles and set-ups. Tons of different stages with different stuff happening all the time, different items, tons of characters with a huge variation in movesets and fighting styles. Plenty of randomization.

If the game was strictly about fair fights, maybe it would be more like Street Fighter, where all that you have is two characters with balanced movesets facing off on a static stage with no items. I'm glad it's not, though. The chaos of SSBB means the playing experience won't be exactly the same each time, even between the same two players, and this lends it replay value.

[DEMON212]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

I'm going to ignore the baseless and semi-elitist introductory value judgment and get to the main points. Fair fights and skill are important, and satisfying, yes, and they're one area of the game's focus. I don't deny that 1-on-1 FD fights are pure fun (they are). But to say that's the whole purpose of the game is obviously simplistic.


It's not like saying that. Street Fighter doesn't have items, but everything I've been talking about is already built right into Brawl from the start.


Luck is a factor. Just like in a game like poker. There is a measure of skill in how a player can adapt to changing, adverse circumstances. By playing nothing but 1-on-1 FD matches with no items, this is an area of player skill that goes untested.


Again, my original point had nothing to do with who is a better player, so you're taking these points down a tangent. My point was that the game promotes tons of wildly different fighting styles and set-ups. Tons of different stages with different stuff happening all the time, different items, tons of characters with a huge variation in movesets and fighting styles. Plenty of randomization.

If the game was strictly about fair fights, maybe it would be more like Street Fighter, where all that you have is two characters with balanced movesets facing off on a static stage with no items. I'm glad it's not, though. The chaos of SSBB means the playing experience won't be exactly the same each time, even between the same two players, and this lends it replay value.

I never said or meant to imply that it was the only point of the game. Just that if you want to prove something, that's the only way to do so.

Watch



The thing is, SSBB can be like that, if you make it. And THAT'S what I think adds the replayabillity. The abillity to turn it into a serious fighter or a party game

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

That silly video proves nothing other than that poker corporations like to market that particular idea to attract money from gullible new players. I'm a professional poker player, and every serious professional poker player will tell you that luck is an integral part of the game. Poker "skill" derives from knowledge of statistics, odds, and probabilities.

If you didn't want to imply that fair fights and individual skill are the whole point of the game, then you shouldn't have said something as easily misinterpreted as "it is about fair fights and a persons [sic] skill".

Anyway, if you go back and look at my original post, you'll see the line with which you took issue was pretty much a joke. Basic point: the game allows for many play styles, so you're free to dislike Sonic's stage for the reasons you posted, while it remains one of my better-liked battlegrounds for the exact same reasons.

[TwinCross]

I'm with Jogurt. I think part of the real skill of Smash is adapting to uncertain circumstances, and reacting accordingly. The randomisation of items and stage effects are there to keep you on your toes, and an experienced Smash player will know all the intricacies of any level and item, so they can adapt their play style on the fly.

In short, I think it takes more skill to play with random factors on, as it allows the player to adapt to random circumstances.