Trapped homebrew channel!

[Marky Vigoroth]

I warn you: DO NOT MOVE YOUR HOMEBREW CHANNEL TO THE SD CARD WHEN YOU PERFORM THE NEW SD CARD CHANNEL UPDATE!

I did such when playing around with the new channel and save files. The Homebrew Channel failed to launch in the SD Card Channel, and I cannot move/copy the Homebrew Channel back to the Wii System memory.

I give this as a warning to fellow Homebrew Channel users. (Then again, I may be doing things wrong...)

[Spore]

Wait a couple days for an inevitable work around.

[SmaMan]

HackMii.com talked about the rundown of System Menu 4.0 today... they never mentioned this though!

They said that the HBC channel will survive, along with DVDx, but the Twilight Hack got broken again, and it doesn't look like it'll be coming back unfortunately.

R.I.P. Twilight Hack. I'll never forget the first time I talked to that guy and was taken to a boot screen. *sigh*

[Marky Vigoroth]

Originally Posted by Spore

Wait a couple days for an inevitable work around.

Exactly. I do not have much choice, though; I cannot immidiately rent Zelda agin, even if I have the money. I am better off buying the game in case another accident comes.

[RetroNL]

Just format your stuff again and change your private map on SD to 'privateold'. (For users who want to install Homebrew again on 4.0 or higher use bannerbomb and Hackmii. (yeah old news, just for the people that arent up to date since last year christmas. . )

[Ocarina]

I didn't know they would allow you to talk about the Homebrew Channel, on this site.
I was always afraid to mention it...

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Ocarina

I didn't know they would allow you to talk about the Homebrew Channel, on this site.
I was always afraid to mention it...

As far as I know its fine, since homebrew has nothing to do with pirating games. We've discussed homebrew many times before when system updates have disabled it.

[Ocarina]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

As far as I know its fine, since homebrew has nothing to do with pirating games. We've discussed homebrew many times before when system updates have disabled it.

Good to know it's alright.
I too, did the same thing that Marky Vigoroth did. Luckily, there's a new version of Bannerbomb, for System Menu 4.2.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

As far as I know its fine, since homebrew has nothing to do with pirating games.

Sure it does.

[RetroNL]

I saw this issue so I only gave some short information for the people who didnt know it .
Btw not all of this is really illegal hacking, its just adding some new tweaks to your Wii. Its your choice if you use it for illegal purposes or not.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Sure it does.

Only in the corupted form some choose to use today; not in the pure form the descrition was intended to cover.

Just because the hacks that allow it to run can be and are malapropriated by pirates to run emulators and illegal roms doesn't mean homebrew as a concept had anything to do with piracy. The concept in its pure form is about fresh user generated content created at home, the way games used to be made all those years ago.
Take Last Hope for Dreamcast as a recent example of what can be achieved through people with a genuine interest in "real" homebrew. These people arn't involved in the scene so that they can play emulated SNES games, they're exploring an interest in game development that's been largely locked off to Joe Public since the rise of console gaming.

Of course some people abuse the same expoits that allow homebrew to run to play pirated games but the word for them isn't 'homebrewers' its 'pirates'; same as always.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

The bottom line is that saying the Homebrew Channel has nothing to do with piracy is an oversimplification, since it, whether we like it or not, does have something to do with piracy.

But I know what you meant: the HBC isn't just about piracy, or even primarily or originally about piracy.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

The bottom line is that saying the Homebrew Channel has nothing to do with piracy is an oversimplification, since it, whether we like it or not, does have something to do with piracy.

But I know what you meant: the HBC isn't just about piracy, or even primarily or originally about piracy.

Wow, changing your avatar after all this time. Fallout 3 really has had an effect on you hasn't it?

[sponge]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Of course some people abuse the same expoits that allow homebrew to run to play pirated games but the word for them isn't 'homebrewers' its 'pirates'; same as always.

nope. they are all pirates.

see, to make homebrew applications that actually play (unauthorized) on a wii, you have to reverse engineer, or hack the original coding of the wii. the original copywritten code. i promise you, just 'unlocking' the wii for 'homebrew' is not a legal act. whatever the homebrew community wants to say otherwise, whatever positive, unpirate-like intentions they may have had originally, is all mute.

that is why they are trying to give some guy 10 YEARS for modding consoles. copywritten code, and making consoles easier to pirate games for. both of which are apparently punishable offenses.

so everyone might as well just keep their homebrew crap to themselves, at least in public forums and such. keep it underground and we might get to keep it longer. keep trying to push it as legal, and we will be eventually shown how much it is not legal. pirates may be ruining legit uses of homebrew for everyone, but so be it. the damage is already done really. its not like we have any reason to shelter ourselves from the truth. we cant go back, only forward. the more we shut up about it, the less laws written to try and shut it down. (obviously i dont agree with all this. i use my own moral judgement to guide my life. 'dont ask dont tell' lol)

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Wow, changing your avatar after all this time. Fallout 3 really has had an effect on you hasn't it?

I just found that drugged up Vault Boy face too hilarious not to use for a while.

Originally Posted by sponge

i use my own moral judgement to guide my life. 'dont ask dont tell'

Plenty of murderers and child molesters say "**** the 'law'" and do what they feel is "right", I'm sure.

[sponge]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Plenty of murderers and child molesters say "**** the 'law'" and do what they feel is "right", I'm sure.

you always have some of the worst (and the best) comparisons.

homebrew is far from murder.

and i speak of laws that are different throughout the world, like pot laws or drinking laws. i do what i feel is right, what i feel is moral. if i happen to live somewhere that doesnt agree, oh well. stealing and piracy is immoral. so i dont do it. downloading a game i already own out of convenience, or developing homebrew applications and hacking my wii (that i paid for with my money, thus MINE) to play them, or getting inebriated in the privacy of my home hurting no one, is not morally wrong to me, whether or not the law of my country agrees. so i do what i want. i wasnt present when those laws were written anyway.

in the words of patton oswalt 'its cool, im not playing!'

but im pretty sure its illegal to murder anyone anywhere. pretty universal. and also pretty immoral. so i dont do it not because its against the law, but because its bad. (same goes for pedos.)

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by sponge

you always have some of the worst (and the best) comparisons.

LOL, don't make completely absurd blanket statements that don't hold up, then. Look, I didn't intend to make this personal; I was just pointing out a hole in your argument. Your subsequent need to expand on and clarify your original point is the whole purpose anyway. That's how we learn!

Originally Posted by sponge

homebrew is far from murder.

It sure is! I'm just taking your point about using your own personal moral compass to its natural logical conclusion in order to reveal its inherent flaw.

Originally Posted by sponge

and i speak of laws that are different throughout the world, like pot laws or drinking laws. i do what i feel is right, what i feel is moral. if i happen to live somewhere that doesnt agree, oh well. stealing and piracy is immoral.

The arbitrary nature of the law! And morals for that matter. So now we begin to interrogate the intricacies and justifications of your "do what I want" argument—because laws about pot, booze, prostitution, child labour, and piracy are different in different regions of the world? But it's the "universal" laws that have to be respected, because they're "right" in some way?

Originally Posted by sponge

downloading a game i already own out of convenience, or developing homebrew applications and hacking my wii (that i paid for with my money, thus MINE) to play them, or getting inebriated in the privacy of my home hurting no one, is not morally wrong to me

So much is wrong with this. I don't know where to start. First, you already own one copy of a particular game, not the right to play as many copies as you want of that game on different media. In many cases (e.g. DLC), you pay for a license to use the game in certain ways, not for the game itself. You're taking for granted a certain right of possession that you don't necessarily have. Second, the same goes for the Wii. As much as you sarcastically disagree with the idea of copyrighted code and laws governing use, the fact is that our capitalist society's intellectual property laws make provisions for that kind of thing. If you don't like it, that sucks, but so far all your opposition boils down to is you not liking a certain law because it infringes on your ability to do what you want for your personal pleasure and comfort.

Third, "to me" is a key phrase. Murder and rape aren't morally wrong to certain people, too. People who don't respect certain underlying social assumptions. People who don't respect or believe in certain laws. People that we would probably call "crazy *******s".

Don't get me wrong (and I need to clarify this because you've made a critical logical error already, so I want to nip another one in the bud), I'm not equating piracy/homebrew and murder. I'm merely pointing out that that comparison is inherent in your previous post's conclusion. Deciding what laws you follow and what ones you don't is more complicated that just appealing to some imaginary higher power or universal morality. If everyone can just do that, then the legal system (and indeed the whole social contract) simply cannot function.

Let us continue!

Originally Posted by sponge

but im pretty sure its illegal to murder anyone anywhere. pretty universal. and also pretty immoral. so i dont do it not because its against the law, but because its bad. (same goes for pedos.)

Murder laws are different everywhere. Hell, the US government even has some provisions for legal murder (military court marshals and capital punishment). Go ahead and try to engage in some kind of circular argument about that not being "murder" because the law says so.

Anyway, since we're here, it's worth pointing out again that these so-called universally immoral acts are arbitrary. But, they're obviously based on some kind of underlying social code.

Now we're getting somewhere!

The essential difference that reveals itself here (and this is where perhaps your position—if significantly rearticulated—could be lent some strength) is that these laws (potentially) appeal to different underlying codes; in other words, the law against murder appeals to an underlying humanism (the sovereignty of human life, etc.), while the law against piracy, homebrew, and theft appeals to an underlying respect for capitalism (private property, copyright, etc.).

Now, in the block I quoted earlier, you invoked the privacy if your own home and the fact that you're not hurting anyone as justifications for why some actions aren't immoral or shouldn't be illegal. That's fine—those are very common arguments. But taking for granted the simple tenets of capitalism (upon which our society, like it or not [and I don't], is currently based), you could also just as easily argue that stealing, fraud, identity theft, etc. are not "hurting" anyone. Obviously, those crimes hurt people and organizations in different ways—the very ways that corporations such as Nintendo would argue that piracy and homebrew "hurt" them.

There... was that easier to understand than a one-liner pointing out a fraught statement reductio ad absurdam?

[SKTTR]

[sponge]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Look, I didn't intend to make this personal; I was just pointing out a hole in your argument.

no worries, i dont take things personally

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

So now we begin to interrogate the intricacies and justifications of your "do what I want" argument—because laws about pot, booze, prostitution, child labour, and piracy are different in different regions of the world? But it's the "universal" laws that have to be respected, because they're "right" in some way?

there are no intricacies or justifications. sarcasm much?

it was a broad generalization. fine. but in general, most places agree on the big stuff. dont kill or rape people. im ok with those laws.

but if it doesnt make sense to me, then i ignore it. easiest way for me to explain it.

this all goes both ways. china could use some child labor laws. america could stop importing industrial hemp from china and canada and help our economy by producing it here. i can be 18 and join the military, but im not old enough to go get drunk? at least until im overseas. stupid. among many other examples that we could both think of.

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

First, you already own one copy of a particular game, not the right to play as many copies as you want of that game on different media. In many cases (e.g. DLC), you pay for a license to use the game in certain ways, not for the game itself. You're taking for granted a certain right of possession that you don't necessarily have. Second, the same goes for the Wii.

sorry, but you didnt have to explain that to me. i know that. what im saying is, i dont care. when it comes to that, i use common sense. not corporate americas opinion.

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

so far all your opposition boils down to is you not liking a certain law because it infringes on your ability to do what you want for your personal pleasure and comfort.

thats.... about the size of it.

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Deciding what laws you follow and what ones you don't is more complicated that just appealing to some imaginary higher power or universal morality.

you can make it more complicated than that if you want. that doesnt mean i have to.

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Go ahead and try to engage in some kind of circular argument about that not being "murder" because the law says so.

i wouldnt. i told you, i dont care about the law. murder is murder son.

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

But taking for granted the simple tenets of capitalism (upon which our society, like it or not [and I don't], is currently based), you could also just as easily argue that stealing, fraud, identity theft, etc. are not "hurting" anyone. Obviously, those crimes hurt people and organizations in different ways—the very ways that corporations such as Nintendo would argue that piracy and homebrew "hurt" them.

piracy does hurt them. but homebrew doesnt. and me downloading a game i bought from them once or twice doesnt either. especially if its not on VC. eff that mess. i love VC, having official, paid for digital copies of games i love. but if i cant buy that, sorry...

if thats taking capitalism for granted, then so be it i guess.

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

There... was that easier to understand than a one-liner pointing out a fraught statement reductio ad absurdam?

it certainly entertained me for longer

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by sponge

no worries, i dont take things personally

Good! You'd be surprised at how easily some people internalize stuff like this. I think it's the written medium. Not much room for interpretation of tone etc.

Originally Posted by sponge

it was a broad generalization. fine. but in general, most places agree on the big stuff. dont kill or rape people. im ok with those laws.

but if it doesnt make sense to me, then i ignore it. easiest way for me to explain it. [...] i told you, i dont care about the law. murder is murder son.

That's fine, but... in effect, what you're saying is that my previous comparison (about how your statement could just as easily be used by psychos to explain away their behaviour—"i dont care about the law. murder ain't murder daughta") is completely valid but you simply don't care because, while you may be a pirate, you at least ain't no psycho. That's fine... but it's not a very well-rationalized justification.

Originally Posted by sponge

it certainly entertained me for longer

Good, me too!

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

hahaha, I've no idea why this made me laugh so hard.

[sponge]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

what you're saying is that my previous comparison is completely valid but you simply don't care because, while you may be a pirate, you at least ain't no psycho. That's fine... but it's not a very well-rationalized justification.

technically yes, your comparison is valid ....im not always the most rational person in the things i do. but i dont consider myself a pirate, because (i like to think) i know where the proper line should be drawn. i think that making people like me a 'pirate' is a waste of time, when there are people actually pirating games and software and such. im more of a fan.

mother 1 - 3? check.
secret of mana 2 (seitsen no densetsu 3)? check.
paid for VC version of SOM1? check.
earthbound insta-buy when released? check.

i dunno. its not for everyone. but it works for me

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

hahaha, I've no idea why this made me laugh so hard.

You're welcome.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

You're welcome.

Even funnier because it seemed to be replacing SKTTR'S orignal post which I'm now very curious about as I know our German friend sometimes likes to indulge in a carefree swear or two

[SKTTR]

Hehehehehh, I knew it! Jogooo!!!!!

@betagam7: Don't worry. Everything's alright.
This picture fits as perfectly as the one I posted.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

Hehehehehh, I knew it! Jogooo!!!!!

@betagam7: Don't worry. Everything's alright.
This picture fits as perfectly as the one I posted.

I thought you might enjoy that little bit of light-hearted sabotage.