VC-F Monthly Gaming Club: December

[Ouenben]

Chrono Trigger


Publisher: Square
Developer: Square
Cost: 800 Points (VC)
Genre: RPG
Originally released: March 11, 1995 on SNES
Also available on: Virtual Console, Playstation, DS, PSN





I chose Chrono Trigger as it's a title I've been meaning to play for a while. Because I've yet to complete a turn based RPG other than Pokemon blue I though this would be a great title to go with. I've heard nothing but great praise for this game and it has many interesting new ideas on top of the typical final fantasy formula.
I realise December may be a busy month for some but hopefully you guys will manage to fit the time in to play it. It doesn't matter if you're playing the PS1/VC/DS version, all versions are welcome.
Will it be as good as my current favourite RPG, Secret of Mana? I guess time will tell...

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Ouenben

Chrono Trigger


Publisher: Square
Developer: Square
Cost: 800 Points (VC)
Genre: RPG
Originally released: March 11, 1995 on SNES
Also available on: Virtual Console, Playstation, DS, PSN





I chose Chrono Trigger as it's a title I've been meaning to play for a while. Because I've yet to complete a turn based RPG other than Pokemon blue I though this would be a great title to go with. I've heard nothing but great praise for this game and it has many interesting new ideas on top of the typical final fantasy formula.
I realise December may be a busy month for some but hopefully you guys will manage to fit the time in to play it. It doesn't matter if you're playing the PS1/VC/DS version, all versions are welcome.
Will it be as good as my current favourite RPG, Secret of Mana? I guess time will tell...

I certainly hope so as I found Mana to be a rather boring, grindathon with not much going for it in the way...at least in single player.

Been lookin for an excuse to play Chrono for a while though, although I think it's 900 points for us PAL gamers.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Chrono Trigger is an excellent pick. It's about on par with Secret of Mana in terms of pure craft, though it's a completely different kind of game. It certainly is time consuming, too, so I hope people can put some time aside this month and play it.

People have a lot of choice this month, because they can play it on:

SNES, VC, PS1, PS3, PSP, DS

Normally I would say I'll play it on PSN, but since I hope to spend some time with Skyward Sword over the holidays, I'll probably have this on my Wii as a backup game.

[MerlinDrazziw]

I'll have to skip this one and maybe spend some time on Secret of Mana or Mystic Quest Legend. That is, if I can get some playtime into those at all. With so many new games (Zelda on Wii, Mario games on 3DS and another Layton), I won't be able to spend enough time on these turn based RPG to really get into them.

[SlurmNator]

Finally a game i wanna play

Oh wait Skyrim, Saints Row, Uncharted, Rayman and Zelda.

Damn can't play. Any other month i would have.

[Bades]

I'm in! I recently won Chrono Cross free and was planning on buying and playing through Chrono Trigger this month! I have to pick up a PSN card and I might not be too active in the discussion until mid-december during my Winter break.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

The DS version is the only one I haven't completed already, so I'll probably play that one for the sake of the backlog. There's no way I'll finish within a month, but whatevz.

This is actually exactly the kind of game I'm looking for right now since I've just spent the past 1-2 months completing action games on PS3.

[Angelic Lapras King]

Hope to get it this month, along with a whole bunch of VC and WW games, so I'll join in at some point.

[Sharecrow]

I only have this on the DS so I'll play it there (along side DQVI). I've needed to get to this one for awhile. Nice choice...thanks for the nudge.

[SKTTR]

Perfect timing, just completed ZeldaSS so I'm in.
CT is one of my most favourite games.

[SlurmNator]

Hmm just noticed im going on hoidays late december so i'll take my ds then with the game and play it while on holidays I'm guessing this will more more of 2-3 month game as it's a RPG anyway.

[Turai]

A very very good game, I wont join in though as I already beaten the game 3 times and Im slowly making my way through my 2nd playthrough of Chrono Cross atm.

I urge everyone that havn't tried this gem to do so however!

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

So, I've played through this game probably 6 times from beginning to end (not counting NG+ replays). To make it interesting, and so I still feel like I'm working towards something (Backloggery trinkets), I may try a Master Run this time around.

For those of you who have played through the game before: what would be a good Master Run idea? I'm thinking no equipment is one possible (probably difficult and grindy) option.

[Stine]

Ooooh, I downloaded this from the VC a while ago, but I only played for 2-3 hours. I'll start over again, and join this session. Even though I just started Skyward Sword and Zenonia... well, I'll try playing some Chrono Trigger as well.

[SlurmNator]

Well i ordered my copy. So I now have to wait.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

I just started tonight, because other people were using my TV.

[Betagam7]

I have a couple of options for this one but I think I'd prefer to play the DS game. Is this version worth the extra gold?

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

I have a couple of options for this one but I think I'd prefer to play the DS game. Is this version worth the extra gold?

The DS version has some slick optional menu/interface tweaks, and a bestiary. It's also portable, which may be a pro or a con. It has some completely optional online/multiplayer lameness, which we can participate in if you're playing the DS version.

[link64]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

The DS version has some slick optional menu/interface tweaks, and a bestiary. It's also portable, which may be a pro or a con. It has some completely optional online/multiplayer lameness, which we can participate in if you're playing the DS version.

Apparently the audio's worse in the DS version or so I've heard, I'm still tempted to buy the VC version.

I don't like any of the new features in the DS version.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by link64

Apparently the audio's worse in the DS version or so I've heard, I'm still tempted to buy the wii version.

I don't like any of the new features in the DS version.

The VC version is definitely the way to go if the portability and minor added features of the DS version don't attract you.

[link64]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

The VC version is definitely the way to go if the portability and minor added features of the DS version don't attract you.

I should point out that I used to own the DS version

[SlurmNator]

Hopefully it get this soon.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

I just played this on the hour-or-so drive back home from Lunenburg. I just returned from spoiler, and am about to go on spoiler. I'm level 7.

[Sharecrow]

I'm level 10 and in the future somewhere. I haven't yet gotten to where I was when I last stopped playing this... Fun game, so far, and I love the battle mechanics. It's fast and smooth. It also gives you a decent variety of choices about what to do.

[PoisonRamune]

Playing the DS version...

[SlurmNator]

Is anyone even playing this on VC? xD

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

I just hit the 7.5 hour mark, thanks to a long drive yesterday. I believe I'm level 23. This game is so well-paced.

[Betagam7]

As I wanted to contribute to the discussion I found a way to try the SNES version of this game while I source a legitimate copy either on VC or DS.

My impressions of the first hour of the game were very good ones.

The characterisation of the main characters seems to be a lot better than the rather lifeless souls of Secret of Mana and I enjoyed the way alot of the map is open to wander in from very early on. Having a map as an overworld rather than having to tediously trek everywhere was nice and overall the game gave me vibes of some of my Quintet Enix favorites.

I thought the use of incidental music rather than the typical RPG rousing overworld theme was also pretty unique and added to the atmosphere. The graphics and sprite design are also very beautiful.

The game seems to have an interesting premise with the whole time travel mechanic so I hope that this is a game I can get into via legitimate means at some point this month.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

I like how you keep comparing this to an unrelated game in a different genre.

I'm just over 10 hours in now, Crono is level 30. I'm just starting to remember how much awesome endgame side-questing there is. I can't wait. I already know I need to do at least one NG+ because I think I missed something...

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

I like how you keep comparing this to an unrelated game in a different genre.

I might agree were I comparing this to Shaq-Fu but I don't see why I shouldn't make the comparison to another heralded Square Enix RPG that was already alluded to by Ouen in his opening post. That's just continuing on with the discussion and besides that, most judgements are formed by comparison to the things we are already familiar with.

Because I found Mana to be such an overhyped disappointment I was worried that I might have similar problems with this title. Fortunately it's quality and charm seems evident even from my brief spell playing it for an hour...something I gave up looking for in Mana after investing something like ten times that playing time but found in spades within the Enix/Quintet games.

I felt it was worth noting so that others who didn't find Mana to live up to the hype (of which there are quite a few judging by the Mana thread) arn't put off from trying this game as it's much closer to the games I have enjoyed than those that I havn't.

I don't see the sense in splitting hairs about genre: to me Mana, Chrono and Robotrek are all RPGs...just ones with different mechanics.

[SKTTR]

Chrono Trigger is the better RPG in many aspects.

However, Secret of Mana was made to let 3 people play an RPG together and it does it extremely well. It might be the first game ever to do so and is still one of the few in videogame existence.
It shouldn't be played or rated as a single player experience at all because with Secret of Mana you get one of those rare co-op RPGs - and you play it in single player!
It's clear you approach it the wrong way.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

Chrono Trigger is the better RPG in many aspects.

However, Secret of Mana was made to let 3 people play an RPG together and it does it extremely well. It might be the first game ever to do so and is still one of the few in videogame existence.
It shouldn't be played or rated as a single player experience at all because with Secret of Mana you get one of those rare co-op RPGs - and you play it in single player!
It's clear you approach it the wrong way.

Yes, I can see how SoM could be a lot more fun in three player mode. Unfortunately I'm 33 and sadly this means that my friends don't play SNES games on a little known, underpromoted service on a console generally regarded as a children's toy....more fool them.

It would have been sensible for Nintendo to include some sort of online functionality to at least allow those of a similar mind to get together and enjoy it as we might have done when the SNES was actually popular and there was a chance that someone in our area might actually want to play this instead of spending mind numbing hours playing at being tough army boys in Modern Warbore 3. Sadly that would have required more than the minimum effort that goes into the VC.

Having said all of that, there is no reason why being a great multiplayer game had to also lead to Mana being such a tedious single player experience. My main problem with Mana wasn't the tedous grinding or the awful AI of your CPU controlled party, it was more the flat characterisation and dull RPG by numbers storyline that took me by surprise.

As I say, Chrono seems to have more spark and intrique in it's opening hours than I found in the first 10+ hours of Mana so I rather wish I'd spent my points on the former rather than the latter.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Because I found Mana to be such an overhyped disappointment I was worried that I might have similar problems with this title. [...] I felt it was worth noting so that others who didn't find Mana to live up to the hype [...] arn't put off from trying this game.

Just saying! And I'm not picking on you specifically, so don't be sad. I was going to mention how tickled I was by the juxtaposition when Ouen first mentioned it, too. I find it to be an amusing comparison, akin to worrying about enjoying FF5 if you found Super Mario RPG to be an overhyped disappointment, or not willing to try Mega Man 2 because of a bad experience with Street Fighter. If they were sequels in a series, this kind of hesitation would make more sense (e.g. I wouldn't expect you to be chomping at the bit to go out and try Secret of Evermore or Legend of Mana now), or if they were in the same genre (you could have very justifiable reluctance about Chrono Trigger if you really hated FF6's gameplay and plotting). The two games may just seem like a relevant comparison for you because you were trying to decide between the two of them before, or because the main characters have similar gangly 2-block tall sprite designs.

As a turn-based menu-driven plot-heavy RPG, it's true that Chrono Trigger doesn't suffer from pitfalls related to being a gameplay-focused action-RPG... because it isn't one. :) Conversely, if people were worried about the time-travel mechanic ruining Secret of Mana for them, I would comfort them that Secret of Mana doesn't have a time travel mechanic. :)

This is quite a tangent anyway, since I'm glad you're pleased and impressed with Chrono Trigger. I just found the innocent fixation on the last 16-bit-RPG you experienced to be somewhat cute and innocent, befitting of the holidays.

I will say, if you were honestly surprised about Secret of Mana's characterization and plotting being flat and/or non-existent, then you probably won't enjoy Chrono Trigger as much as those of us who originally played it back in the day. Part of the reason it's so great is because it was one of the first/only RPGs of that era to have any kind of half-decent characterization and plotting at all! Since it's something we've come to expect from good games now, those who are enjoying Chrono Trigger for the first time now will expect good characterization and plotting, and it won't come as such a pleasant shock for them. :( (Unless, of course, they've just had their expectations levelled by a game like Secret of Mana, in which case perhaps it could indeed make sense as a comparison in the sense of it being a "tare weight" for the next game they play! :))

I'll also mention Chrono Cross very briefly here. Bades was asking about it in the chat when he won a free copy, and Pocket Dragon said something about it being basically unrelated to Chrono Trigger. This is mostly the case, except for one major spoilery connection between the two games. We don't need to elaborate on that right now, but I did want to clarify that point in case anyone plans to go on to Chrono Cross after playing through this one. As a game, it's not as good, but it could be something we pick up in discussion later on.

As far as my own progress goes, I've just reached the first part in the game where the difficulty has spiked enough for me to be killed by a boss. This is the same point in the game where the difficulty usually picks up for me, actually. I haven't been playing with much nostalgia at all so far, but dying that that same boss just about kicked it into gear. :)

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

I find it to be an amusing comparison, akin to worrying about enjoying FF5 if you found Super Mario RPG to be an overhyped disappointment, or not willing to try Mega Man 2 because of a bad experience with Street Fighter.

I'm not sure why my concerns (that two SNES RPG's released by the same developer within two years of each other might share similar traits) should be akin to someone not wanting to play an NES platformer because they didn't enjoy an arcade fighting game, regardless of the developer/timescale being roughly the same. The two are distinctly different experiences and, while it's not impossible for a person to rule out a developers entire back catalogue on the experience of one game it's not the sort of narrow minded view I would be taking nor do I see it as similar to my wondering if Chrono would share Mana's faults.

Your first comparison was better but with the knowledge I had that SMRPG was developed, like Mystic Quest, as an entry level RPG, I wouldn't have allowed it to affect my judgement of buying FF5. I think it was reasonable though to expect Mana and Chrono to share some traits as both were ostensibly designed for the same target audience within a similar timescale. That one is (loosely) an action RPG and the other is (loosely) a turnbased experience isn't enough for me to view them as different genres. Different sub-genres maybe...

[SlurmNator]

Keeping on top of chrono trigger i see XD

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

I'm not sure why my concerns (that two SNES RPG's released by the same developer within two years of each other might share similar traits) should be akin to someone not wanting to play an NES platformer because they didn't enjoy an arcade fighting game, regardless of the developer/timescale being roughly the same. The two are distinctly different experiences and, while it's not impossible for a person to rule out a developers entire back catalogue on the experience of one game it's not the sort of narrow minded view I would be taking nor do I see it as similar to my wondering if Chrono would share Mana's faults.

Your first comparison was better but with the knowledge I had that SMRPG was developed, like Mystic Quest, as an entry level RPG, I wouldn't have allowed it to affect my judgement of buying FF5. I think it was reasonable though to expect Mana and Chrono to share some traits as both were ostensibly designed for the same target audience within a similar timescale. That one is (loosely) an action RPG and the other is (loosely) a turnbased experience isn't enough for me to view them as different genres. Different sub-genres maybe...

As I've said repeatedly, I'm not having a go at you or criticizing your comparison or calling you narrow-minded, etc., I just found it funny and cute like a Pikachu plushie.

Action-RPGs and turn-/menu-based plot-driven RPGs are completely different experiences, sub-genres of some ur-RPG category, just like fighting and platforming games are completely different experiences, sub-genres of some ur-action category. Part of the reasons my deliberately obtuse cross-sub-genre comparisons are so apt is because some of your comments directly reference one genre's tried and true old staples as eye-opening improvements—i.e. Chrono Trigger having an overworld. Of course it does. It's the same kind of game as FFIV-V-VI, Breath of Fire, etc. During the NES & SNES eras, an overworld map was one of the genre's defining features. Secret of Mana's and Soul Blazer's hub-connected world-wandering design was an inheritance of adventure games. (This is even more obvious in the first Mana game.)

The fact that Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger were developed by the same company is similar to the fact that Shigz Miyamoto is an executive producer on a lot of games he probably only looked at and gave periodic thumbs up to. They were developed by completely different creative teams. Chrono Trigger is arguably a proto-Square Enix game, since it was worked on by dream team of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest veterans, long, long pre-merger.

How about we discuss the game? Have you played much further in your ROM yet? I should probably note that Chrono Trigger was always one of the games that would put an emulator to the test (along with FFV). Very few of them could get the layering right. So when you go to AD 2300 (the ghost/pirate ship level in FFV), you couldn't see anything unless you turned off the mist layer. I always found it strange that emulators couldn't do some of the stuff that the console itself could do, but I guess we don't give those old cartridge engineers enough credit sometimes.

I didn't realize this game had become hard to find on DS. It was always going for $10 or so around here. Should I keep my eyes peeled for a cheap copy for you? Not that you can go wrong with the SNES version, either.

Has anyone else been keeping up with this one?

Share?

[Sharecrow]

Yeah, I'm still in the future and am level 12 (I think). As I've noted elsewhere, I love the battle mechanics in this game. The real-time, menu system is smooth and being able to learn and perform combo moves with multiple party members is a nice feature. I'm probably about 2/3rds of the way to where I was when I last played it and stopped. I don't recall why I stopped...what game distracted me...

I'd probably be further but have also been playing Silent Hill Homecoming (in hard no less) as well as the Eat Them! game. Not to mention my life seems to stay pretty busy as it is...

As far as Chrono Trigger goes, so far my view has been exceptionally positive.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

As I've said repeatedly, I'm not having a go at you or criticizing your comparison or calling you narrow-minded, etc., I just found it funny and cute like a Pikachu plushie.

Action-RPGs and turn-/menu-based plot-driven RPGs are completely different experiences, sub-genres of some ur-RPG category, just like fighting and platforming games are completely different experiences, sub-genres of some ur-action category. Part of the reasons my deliberately obtuse cross-sub-genre comparisons are so apt is because some of your comments directly reference one genre's tried and true old staples as eye-opening improvements—i.e. Chrono Trigger having an overworld. Of course it does. It's the same kind of game as FFIV-V-VI, Breath of Fire, etc. During the NES & SNES eras, an overworld map was one of the genre's defining features. Secret of Mana's and Soul Blazer's hub-connected world-wandering design was an inheritance of adventure games. (This is even more obvious in the first Mana game.)

The fact that Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger were developed by the same company is similar to the fact that Shigz Miyamoto is an executive producer on a lot of games he probably only looked at and gave periodic thumbs up to. They were developed by completely different creative teams. Chrono Trigger is arguably a proto-Square Enix game, since it was worked on by dream team of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest veterans, long, long pre-merger.

How about we discuss the game? Have you played much further in your ROM yet? I should probably note that Chrono Trigger was always one of the games that would put an emulator to the test (along with FFV). Very few of them could get the layering right. So when you go to AD 2300 (the ghost/pirate ship level in FFV), you couldn't see anything unless you turned off the mist layer. I always found it strange that emulators couldn't do some of the stuff that the console itself could do, but I guess we don't give those old cartridge engineers enough credit sometimes.

I didn't realize this game had become hard to find on DS. It was always going for $10 or so around here. Should I keep my eyes peeled for a cheap copy for you? Not that you can go wrong with the SNES version, either.

Has anyone else been keeping up with this one?

Share?

It's not that it's become rare. It's simply become rare in stores. I could pick one up from ebay but by the time it gets to me with the Xmas post this month might be over. I'd normally have picked it up on VC but again, with Xmas I've got a house full of people so if the Wii does get a look in it won't be to play an old single player SNES game.

I don't want to continue playing the ROM I just wanted to give it a quick test so that I could at least offer some comments on it. Chrono is also ROM problematic on DS as it has copyright protection that makes it freeze after the first time travel and while there is a way around this I can't be bothered faffing about with it. At least this club has promoted me to learn that I would enjoy the game enough to buy it legitimately in the future.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

At least this club has promoted me to learn that I would enjoy the game enough to buy it legitimately in the future.

I'm sad in a kind of tragic sympathy way that you've just discovered that you think you would like this classic, and yet you won't be able to play it for a while... I think I'm going to nominate it for the upcoming round of the VC-F GotM club, so all of the people who couldn't get into it or couldn't finish it in December will get a chance to pick up where they left off.

[SlurmNator]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

I didn't realize this game had become hard to find on DS. It was always going for $10 or so around here. Should I keep my eyes peeled for a cheap copy for you? Not that you can go wrong with the SNES version, either.

Has anyone else been keeping up with this one?

Share?

I got my ds copy from a UK site for about $23 probably could have got it cheaper on ebay but in australia the games still $40 brand new think it was because chrono trigger was never released on the snes is australia if my facts are correct.