VC Forums Monthly Gaming Club: January 2010

[Betagam7]

VC Forums Monthly Gaming Club
January's Pick: Betagam7

Title: Last Ninja 2: Back with a Vengeance
System: Commodore 64
Cost: 500 Nintendo Points
Genre: Action Adventure
Controls: Wii Remote, CC & GCN Controllers

Comment:

Under normal circumstances this might not have been my pick but here's why I chose it for January's Gaming Club.

1.

Because of our recent Yultide/Secret Santa endevours and the inevitable drain on finances that the January sales bring I wanted to pick something that would be cheap to purchase but still provide an enjoyable experience while not being overly time consuming for those of us who probably are stuffed fit to burst with new games already.

At 500 points and with pretty much universally high review scores this seems to fit the bill. Meanwhile the game is challenging enough to hopefully keep us talking/swapping hints while being short enough to be ideal fodder for something different to play in between the long sessions of NSMB and its Xmas kin.

2.

The C64 seems to have dropped off the face of the earth when it comes to VC releases and as someone who grew up with it this seems dissapointing. Hopefully a C64 game being the VCF game of the month can help reignite its fire by boosting its sales . On a more serious note it might help bring the system some new fans on here who've been hesitant at checking it out.

I also wanted to pick a game that nobody had tried so far and (while I'll probably be wrong with one or two of you) most backloggeries I checked seemed to indicate that nobody owned the game.

3. Why #2?

First of all story is not a major factor in these games. Sure you can choose to follow the story arc if you wish but its really no more complicated than "Good Ninja doesn't like Evil Samurai: he tries to stop him doing dastardly things with swords".

The Last Ninja 1 might seem a more logical starting point, however its not as polished as its sequel and has some extremely frustrating controls and maddening jumping sections which this game improves on/ cuts down on.

Part 3 seems to have unresolved issues with nobody being entirely sure whether it works succesfully on VC so I thought it best to avoid that one for now.

Special Challenge

The Last Ninja games often feature some rather obtuse puzzles so lets all try and avoid walkthroughs and aim to help each other through the game.
Also can we actually try to wait until January 1st to play this one


AND FINALLY

Most importantly this is a legendary game from a series that forms a hugely significant part of retro gaming history and exploring that history together is surely at least part of what this club is about (not that we arn't also about trying out top new titles such as last months pick too). It's music is a thing of beauty and has been sampled by numerous musicians and bands over the years (I believe Dragonforce currently come on stage to the music from one of its levels) while graphically its probably only outshaded by part 3 as the best looking C64 VC title.

Hope people enjoy it. Incidentally this will be my first playthrough of the game too. I've only ever played the first one as a youngster and, more recently, on VC, however, having heard that legendary music hundreds of times now I feel its time to taste the gameplay that goes with it.

Nintendo Life's usual short review is here:
http://vc.nintendolife.com/reviews/2...irtual_console


N.B Apologies to Australians/NZ gamers

As far as I know Pocketim is our only regular affected by this however its worth noting that due to the broken release schedules of our Antipodean cousins this game is not instantly available to them. To purchase it they will need to change their region temporarily to UK before purchasing the game. As region hopping can result in loss of Wii points they should have an empty account before trying it and ditto before swapping back.
I know that Tim has done this before to purchase other games so hopefully it wn't be a huge problem. If for some reason GC members can't buy points online then PM me and we'll sort out a solution involving swapping gifts
Again, apologies if this seems a hassle but it was semi-decided a while back in the main thread that to rule out all the games not immediately available in Au/NZ would restrict the club too much when there are workarounds.

[enigmaopoeia]

This is just what I needed since I only have 500 Nintendo Points left on my account, and thankfully I wouldn't have to back out of January's Pick due to lack of finances. Thanks for thinking of us, Betagam!

Last Ninja 2, huh? Never even heard of this game and it'll also be my very first Commodore 64 title!

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by enigmaopoeia

This is just what I needed since I only have 500 Nintendo Points left on my account, and thankfully I wouldn't have to back out of January's Pick due to lack of finances. Thanks for thinking of us, Betagam!

Last Ninja 2, huh? Never even heard of this game and it'll also be my very first Commodore 64 title!

The games are, I think, more famous in Europe where the home computing scene was bigger than the console scene. While you guys were all exploring Hyrule or the Mushroom Kingdom many Europeans were living in the Last Ninja's world or watching small green urchins kick decapitated heads about in Barbarian

Something I forgot to mention is that console gamers may find using the classic controller best as, if this is like the first game, the controls are all mapped to the buttons.

Old schoolers like myself will of course be using a Wiimote and the translucent virtual keyboard the game includes for that authentically retro feel

[SKTTR]

I'm happy with your pick.

It was 20 years ago when I beat this (with trainers and cheats and helluva practice from Last Ninja 1)

It's my favourite episode of the series and it's an opportunity to see if Wiimote controls are good enough for a game that was played with a joystick. I mean, Uridium, Paradroid and Boulder Dash were easy to control with a Wiimote, but Last Ninja has very different controls optimized for a joystick... like International Karate, you get the point. Well, we'll see.

More C64 support is always a good thing.

[Kiwi the Tortoise]

It's been quite a while since I last played that game.
Might be interesting, I still remember how it drove me nuts because I kept falling from the roof of the mansion.
*Sigh*
The good ol'days.

[enigmaopoeia]

Yeah, I am a bit scared of the controls, I have to test it out to see which controller works best for me. Too bad my USB keyboard wouldn't work with this game.

[hansolo350]

Looks like I should start playing the first one.

[PoisonRamune]

I'm in, glad I didn't spend my last 500 on The Magic Obelisk.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

I'm happy with your pick.

I thought you might be I had also considered Paradroid as it gets so overlooked because of how..well...odd it looks in videos. Sadly its only out in the EU so this game became my eventual choice.

Regarding all the talk of controls I found the Classic Controllers D-pad to be the most comfortable solution overall. I didn't try the GC pad but I imagine its small D-pad might be rather fiddly.

Wiimote was perfectly satisfactory, but required use of the onscreen keyboard which could get fiddly for the boss of the first game.

Originally Posted by Kiwi the Tortoise

It's been quite a while since I last played that game.
Might be interesting, I still remember how it drove me nuts because I kept falling from the roof of the mansion.
*Sigh*
The good ol'days.

Yeah, the precision jumping was something of a bugbear with the first game especially in its placement near the end of levels. I've heard that this game has less of it though so hopefully the bit you mention is a one off .

Thankfully if this is like the first game, you don't have to start all over again when you lose your lives and can resume from the start of the level. The trial and error gameplay of working out how to do what was part of the charm of the first game in my opinion (an example being that cliff face you had to scale down, the solution being blindingly obvious once you worked it out but not immediately obvious to gamers spoilt by the "do it all for you" nature of modern games, me included).

[Sharecrow]

Cool. I've wanted to play this one. This is actually one of the games that was on my short list for selection in the event I were selected to choose for the club . I'll download it shortly and won't start it until next year.

Oh, and this will be my first C64 game and arguably long overdue.

[SKTTR]

I think this game has, just like Last Ninja 1, unlimited continues because in the original version one stage was loaded (and loaded into 64K of memory) after another, and since it would be awkward to rewind the tape, it always just starts over in the last stage you've been.

You're only screwed to start completely over, if you miss important items that you need to progress, since you can't go back to earlier stages.

Since this game only has 7 stages it shouldn't be too hard.

A 100% run (all weapons and items) is how I will beat the game.

The jumping sections are easy once you know where to stand when jumping off. But yeah, I can't remember any details and will have to do some try&error in a few stages just like everyone else here.

PS. Shame on NoA for not releasing Paradroid in NA.

[enigmaopoeia]

That's great to hear there are unlimited continues in this game and I too will attempt a 100% run by obtaining all items and weapons.

Though I have one question, for example: If I collected all of the weapons in Stage 1. I died and wasted all of my lives in Stage 2. When I use up a continue, do I lose everything I've collected in Stage 1?

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by enigmaopoeia

That's great to hear there are unlimited continues in this game and I too will attempt a 100% run by obtaining all items and weapons.

Though I have one question, for example: If I collected all of the weapons in Stage 1. I died and wasted all of my lives in Stage 2. When I use up a continue, do I lose everything I've collected in Stage 1?

Not as far as I know from playing the first game. As SKTTR says you will continue to start with whatever you had when that stage was first "loaded".

There was a problem which I had with Last Ninja 1 where by not collecting a certain item in the second level I was unable to solve a key puzzle in the final level meaning I had to do a hard reset.

Annoying, but as these games are fairly short it was easy enough to get back through the levels quite quickly. I guess it can be said to be part of the overall puzzle, as I think it was a quite deliberate mechanic to make the game "harder" in the good old days.

Great to here people saying that this will be there first C64 title. Hopefully it may lead them to try others.

[Trapster]

Hah. I won't be able to play this until the 1st, anyway. I'm not at home atm.

How many weapons are there in this game and what are the bosses like? And usually, it's Ninjas who are evil and Samurais who are good.

[hansolo350]

I'm playing the first game right now and I find picking up items to be a huge hassel. I hope this is fixed in the second game.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Trapster

How many weapons are there in this game and what are the bosses like? And usually, it's Ninjas who are evil and Samurais who are good.

If the game is anything like the first then the answers to your questions are:

1. Sword, Nunchucks, Staff, Shurikens, Smoke Bombs

and

2. None existent (barring the final enemy) Usually the non-grunt enemies in the first game needed to be dispatched with some special trick.

Last Ninja isn't really about the fighting though, its more of an adventure game where you explore locales and solve puzzles/figure out what the puzzles even are in the first place while having the odd fight...if you feel like it.

Sometimes its best not to fight but sneak quickly past, ala Resident Evil.

Originally Posted by hansolo350

I'm playing the first game right now and I find picking up items to be a huge hassel. I hope this is fixed in the second game.

It's a matter of making the ninjas hands touch the item. Like most things in the game that would have seemed rational at the time even though nowerdays were slightly more spoilt with the "just crouch over it" method.

[SKTTR]

Originally Posted by Betagam

Last Ninja isn't really about the fighting though, its more of an adventure game where you explore locales and solve puzzles/figure out what the puzzles even are in the first place while having the odd fight...if you feel like it.

Sometimes its best not to fight but sneak quickly past, ala Resident Evil.

Yes. The puzzles can often be tricky. It's a game where you play as a Ninja in New York and start in the middle of a dangerous place. You have to explore the environment (Central Park, Manhattan, Sewers, Builiding etc.). The first thing to do is finding weapons (katana, shuriken, bo, etc.) to equip and items (hamburgers, apples, keys, etc.) to use in the right places or when health is low because if you don't know how to fight you're screwed and the enemies follow you as long as you're on the same screen. Running away is easy and spares time and energy. But fighting (if you can fight like a ninja) and trigger them down is of course much more rewarding. In the first few levels dead enemies won't respawn. And occasionally make the pixel perfect jump and the "hintless" puzzles. So all in all in difficulty it's the Commodore equivalent of NES Ninja Gaiden. Just with an isometric perspective and adventure elements.

It's a matter of making the ninjas hands touch the item. Like most things in the game that would have seemed rational at the time even though nowerdays were slightly more spoilt with the "just crouch over it" method.

Yes, picking up things can be a unnecessary time waste - until someone shows how it will always work. Back on the C64 I got that move down, so I guess a little practice is enough and you'll be picking items up like a ninja in no time!!!

edit: i edit my post because of stonedness.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

Yes, picking up things can be a unnecessary time waste - until someone shows how it will always work. Back on the C64 I got that move down, so I guess a little practice is enough and you'll be picking items up like a ninja in no time!!!

Quick update on this, having had a sneaky little go on download tonight I can confirm that this game has a better "picking up" animation where the ninja bends all the way down and touches the floor as opposed to the odd looking semi-squat of the first game.

This makes picking up items slightly easier for the beginner. Can also confirm that getting out of the first two rooms had me stumped for several minutes. Damn those deceptively simple puzzles!

Now though I'm putting it away until the new year

[Yossarian]

Downloaded it this morning and had a quick go. Very different and the first C64 game I've played in moons unless Nightbreed was on the C64. The Wiimote's d-pad has been a bit tricksy so I may try the classic controller to get those pesky diagonals to work.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Downloaded it this morning and had a quick go. Very different and the first C64 game I've played in moons unless Nightbreed was on the C64. The Wiimote's d-pad has been a bit tricksy so I may try the classic controller to get those pesky diagonals to work.

Yeah, the game can be a bit of a culture shock to those who havn't experienced the machine before but get past the initial 5 minutes of awkwardness and you start to appreciate it more and more.

It's worth reading the manual too as the controls can seem confusing if your used to traditional console games. Classic Controller will be best for those not accustomed to fiddlign around with the keyboard.

Incidently I wonder why the keyboard is the solid one and not the transluscent one found in other C64 titles which would be more helpful in this game.

[SKTTR]

Transluscent keyboard? I think this can be changed by a button like in all C64 VC games.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

Transluscent keyboard? I think this can be changed by a button like in all C64 VC games.

Well, ordinarily you press '1' to bring up the virtual keyboard but in Last Ninja that keyboard covers the screen while your using it. In some VC C64 games, however, the virtual keyboard is transluscent meaning you can still see what's going on underneath it.

If there's a way to alternate then I havn't found it yet.

[hansolo350]

I started playing this game this mourning after giving up on level two of Last Ninja 1; there was far too many jumping sections. Picking up items has greatly improved however I do not like how the enemies now regenerate.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by hansolo350

I started playing this game this mourning after giving up on level two of Last Ninja 1; there was far too many jumping sections. Picking up items has greatly improved however I do not like how the enemies now regenerate.

Strictly speaking they don't regenerate as such. The first time you beat an enemy he/she will be knocked out and will slowly recover consciousness. The second time you beat them it's for keeps.

A good tactic is to run on the screen and score a few hits then run off and repeat, that way they can't get near enough to hurt your ninja. Watch out for the cops though who for some reason are armed with Shurikens and can take you out from a distance.

My progress so far:

After freeing myself from the game's opening chamber I've managed to retrieve and assemble the two parts of my nunchuks (from two rather unlikely places) and have also retrieved my staff however I've yet to discover the location of my sword.

Found a couple of items:

Hamburger (extra life)
Piece of white paper?
Key

The juggler and his lethal sticks have taken me out a few times but so far I've managed to explore most of Central Park without really knowing what they items I have are for.

On my next turn I'll try and kill most of the baddies so I have more room to experiment.

Classic Controller is proving useful with the equip and item prompts both being mapped to the select and start buttons.

[SKTTR]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Strictly speaking they don't regenerate as such. The first time you beat an enemy he/she will be knocked out and will slowly recover consciousness. The second time you beat them it's for keeps.


Classic Controller is proving useful with the equip and item prompts both being mapped to the select and start buttons.

Sometimes, if you run away, and the baddies can't catch up with you they cut their belly open (I think only the ones with swords) and are gone for good.


CC is great to have keyboard buttons mapped to the controller.
Are the buttons configurated in the same way on the Wiimote?

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

Sometimes, if you run away, and the baddies can't catch up with you they cut their belly open (I think only the ones with swords) and are gone for good.


CC is great to have keyboard buttons mapped to the controller.
Are the buttons configurated in the same way on the Wiimote?

I don't think so. You have to use the space bar/F keys on the virtual keyboard as far as I recall.

I'd forgotten about the Sepuku from the first game. Not sure if they do it in this game though as the enemies in the first stage are mostly shuriken wielding cops or Bo wielding baddies.

Seems like nobody can find their sword in that level

[Kiwi the Tortoise]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Seems like nobody can find their sword in that level

If my memory doesn't fool me, the Katana can be found in Level two.
But it's darn well hidden of course

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Kiwi the Tortoise

If my memory doesn't fool me, the Katana can be found in Level two.
But it's darn well hidden of course

Interesting. I'd assumed the first level would be where you equipped, similar to the first game. Oh well, now to figure out what this other stuff is for.

[Yossarian]

I found the item I missed from the first set of screens and celebrated my success by falling to my death in the river. Multiple times.

[PoisonRamune]

I feel a little infantile admitting this, but I find great amusement in making the ninja run backwards and juke around. I've played the game for about 15 minutes or so and haven't even made a serious attempt at doing anything serious in the game, I just like making that little guy dance.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

I found the item I missed from the first set of screens and celebrated my success by falling to my death in the river. Multiple times.

There's a river?

[hansolo350]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

There's a river?

Yes, you have jump on the boats to cross.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by hansolo350

Yes, you have jump on the boats to cross.

Urgh, I predict insta-death for me when I find that part given my hopelessness at jumping in the first game. I still havn't figured out what to do with the items I have yet.

[hansolo350]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Urgh, I predict insta-death for me when I find that part given my hopelessness at jumping in the first game. I still havn't figured out what to do with the items I have yet.

The jumping sections in this game, so far, have been much easier than in the first game, but it is still easy to kill yourself.

[PoisonRamune]

After playing this game for about an hour last night and seriously trying to figure out what to do to advance the game 2-3 ****ing screens. I can't say I like this game very much. I'mma stick it out with you guys this month, just don't expect me making any significant headway in this game or even making an attempt to finish this one (unless I get super smart in the next 29 days).

Maybe I'll post some videos of me making the ninja break dance or something.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by PoisonRamune

After playing this game for about an hour last night and seriously trying to figure out what to do to advance the game 2-3 ****ing screens. I can't say I like this game very much. I'mma stick it out with you guys this month, just don't expect me making any significant headway in this game or even making an attempt to finish this one (unless I get super smart in the next 29 days).

Maybe I'll post some videos of me making the ninja break dance or something.

Did you manage to make it out of the building? That probably would have given me a headache too if I hadn't randomly punched the relevent piece of scenery while practicing combat

It was a rather mean hidden object to come along so early in the game. Once you get outside though you should have no trouble advancing many screens.

[PoisonRamune]

Thanks for the tip, man... Come to think of it I did wonder why that piece of background flashed when the screen loaded. I'm still not very keen on the idea of a ninja getting his ass kicked by a petty street punk.

[SKTTR]

Most of the important items flash for a short time when you enter the screen. Try to punch it or pick it up.

And some items are hidden behind doors, inside boxes, trashcans, etc. and check out the little shacks and I remember something hidden behind bambus. Randomly do your pick up move behind the scenes.

The boat sequence! That was hate, man.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

and check out the little shacks

I think they're public toilets actually and I'm disturbed by the fact that the Ninja hides his stuff in Warning: Spoiler Below.

the ladies

[Betagam7]

A quick tip that's helped me out with this so far (although i've still not past the first level).

Read the Online manual

Sounds obvious but, let's face it, normally these are quite crap. With this one there are actually some clues about the various items. I also discovered that you can block enemy attacks by holding attack and hitting an upward diagonal.

Not sure if you could do that in the first game but if you could I now feel rather sheepish.

I'm through the gate now after figuring out how to make it but still at a loss for what the Hamburger is for. I thought it was an extra life like the apples in the first game, although wierdly on my last go I found I had to have it selected to climb fences

The boat crossing isn't causing me any problem. How I'm supposed to get past that last big river is though.