The last ninjaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh I want to smash my screen!

[Betagam7]

Don't get me wrong this is one of the best damn 500 points I've spent but oh how those jumpy bits make me want to throttle the life out of whoever developed it!
I thought I was fine see, I'd negotiated the nightmare jumps after hours of painstaking back and forth and made it all the way to level four...whereupon I discovered that I hadn't picked up a vital item from level 3.

Result; start from scratch and another a hour and a half spent failing level two again and wanting to cry! They don't make em like that anymore...thank god!

Like I say, great game though (sob)

I'm off to play endless ocean!

[timp29]

yeah, i know what you mean. Especially level 2 where you get the flashy stuff and have to jump back across the little stream. Kills me at least once every time. The music rocks though and makes it all worth it.

[Betagam7]

Level 2 is just ridiculous. Note to developer, if you are going to put a ludicrously hard bit in with precision jumping then put it in at the START of the level, don't whack it in near the end so I can't even practice it without spending 10 minutes getting there!

Honestly though, what is it about Ninja games that makes them so difficult? I don't think I've ever played a game with Ninja in the title that hasn't been massively frustratingly difficult! Yet somehow theyäre all equally addictive.

[Joxe]

That's because Ninjas are the coolest thing on the planet, even cooler than Pirates.

[timp29]

Indeed, I don't get the pirate fanboyness over being fans of ninjas? I mean to all those who think ninjas suck, go hire out the 80's ninja movie 'American Ninja' starring Michael Dudikov. Thats a crap movie and it serves you right pirate lovers!

As for level 2, to flip across the stream the first time, do an up+flip to the rock in the middle, then up+flip again and you're across. I have no easy way to flip back across, thats where I die. As for the swamp, theres like a log kind of touching where the path ends, and you can run onto this and up+flip, and then just keep up+flipping and that should get you across safely.

[Betagam7]

Actually getting back is the bit I've found really easy.
Big Jump (Down and Flip) to the middle stone between the posts then do the same (down and Flip) and you land not on a log but on the waters edge by the grass.
From here its just a case of walking carefully round the post and you're clear.
I'm trying to compile a FAQ as I go for Last Ninja with firm jumping patterns as this game has given me so much trouble.
Incidently, anyone know what became of The Last Ninja Xbox game that was previewed many years ago?

[timp29]

The project was scrapped, it never reached completion. I was very excited about that one too. The Last Ninja Archives at http://lastninja.lemon64.com/ is a fairly useful site for last ninja related information.

Mark Cale: The game that I do want to redo - but I think I would find it very difficult to take it totally to next-gen - is Last Ninja. Without a doubt that would be the one title I would choose out of all of them, Why? Because it was the biggest game we ever created. We were planning Last Ninja 4 for PS2 and X-Box but we scrapped it because it simply wasn't good enough. Is Last Ninja coming to the NDS and Wii? Yes it is. But It's a remake of Last Ninja 1,2 and 3.

[Betagam7]

Hmmm, a remake. I wonder if it won't just be an Amiga Port or whether he's just referring to the VC release?
I could see a complilation on the DS but they'd have to do something about the jumping and the graphics, I'm not sure todays DS gamers would stomach a straight port.
In a way its kind of starting to annoy me the way games get milked so much in a deliberate order of inferiority.
Weve seen the SF2 games released this way, I hope after milking us for old C64 versions they arent then going to expect people to stump out for a Wiiware version too with slightly improved graphics.

[timp29]

I think he is just referring to the virtual console remakes.

[DarkGlobe]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Hmmm, a remake. I wonder if it won't just be an Amiga Port or whether he's just referring to the VC release?

Dunno what's being suggested but that's an old quote now.

Amiga versions of the Last Ninja games do exist but they are nowhere near the shining examples of their platform's power that the C64 releases were.

The Last Ninja was ported to the Amiga much later and released as Ninja Remix. It was very playable and probably the easiest to finish of all the Ninja games on C64 or Amiga. It also had a beautifully Amigaified soundtrack and it was graphically nice too but certainly in the style of the 8 bit games.

Last Ninja 2 on the Amiga stank big time. Daft micky mouse, gharish graphics, crappy main sprite animation and suffered slowdowns. It was playable for major Ninja fans like me but it sucked big time as a 16 bit version because the Amiga could do SOOO much better in the right hands.

Last Ninja 3 for the Amiga is probably the best looking of the 3 and it at least looks like an Amiga game ought to...but it wasn't much good really. The control system had been simplified, there was a small but annoying blinking pixel glitch on the main sprite (HOW that was not noticed I'll never know) and it had a few bugs including a nasty glitch on the last level where if you picked up items in a particular order, you were screwed. Whilst more playable than Ninja 3 on the C64, it still lacked the original feel.

Ninja Remix, IMHO, is the best all-round Last Ninja game on the Amiga. It's the only one that feels right.

[Betagam7]

ARGH! After spending most of the day going back through this I can beat the final boss and am on the last screen where all you have to do is pick up a scroll and not step on a certain part of the floor.
For the life of me I can't get the ninja to pick the thing up! I've watched walkthroughs on youtube and am standing exactly where the guy on there is standing but I can't pick it up.

Please don't tell me this is a bug in the game!

EDIT: Nope just the sort of fiddly hit detection that is typical of the game. After dying on the screen over and over again I finally managed to line up the ninja inch perfectly for the game to accept I had picked up the scroll and that's my first C64 Complete for the backloggery!

Rather short "ending" there, I bet people with a multiload tape were waiting for the next stage to load up

[slangman]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

ARGH! After spending most of the day going back through this I can beat the final boss and am on the last screen where all you have to do is pick up a scroll and not step on a certain part of the floor.
For the life of me I can't get the ninja to pick the thing up! I've watched walkthroughs on youtube and am standing exactly where the guy on there is standing but I can't pick it up.

LOL, I need to get around downloading this sometime. I'd rather finish Last Ninja 2 though. This one sounds quite fustrating for my tastes.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by slangman

LOL, I need to get around downloading this sometime. I'd rather finish Last Ninja 2 though. This one sounds quite fustrating for my tastes.

I'll pick up LN2 soon, its meant to have a lot less annoying jumping, about 95% less in fact.

[SKTTR]

This is a video of the original Commodore 64 game The Last Ninja.

These are the 4 and a half minutes
that are missing in the Wii Virtual Console version of The Last Ninja.




If this was a 100% correct emulated Virtual Console game,
you had to watch (and hear) this loading sequence when you start up the game for the first time
(and every time you restart the game from the Wii home menu.)

But the Wii Virtual Console version begins when this video ends,
when the music already faded out to silence
and the colors of the borders stopped flashing and turn black.

Maybe they could have made this loading sequence skipable by a button press.
That would be a neat option.

At least they shouldn't have cut the great title track.
I hate that (really miss it on the VC version).

This piece of music is a definite part of the games soundtrack!
Without it the game is incomplete!

You hear that, Nintendo?
Just imagine a Zelda game without it's title music.
Miyamoto would roundhouse kick the team responsible for such a failure!

I want this game to be updated!
Gimme the whole intro or just the missing piece of music.
Thanks.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Tell Nintendo.

[Betagam7]

I think its pretty understandable why Nintendo didn't include a four and a half minute emulation of a cassette tape loading...

Except...that the emulation of loading is included in EPYX Winter Games (albeit only for five or six seconds between each event).

SKTTR, the reality is however that only our generation appreciates this kind of stuff. Just look at Jogurt's best game ever poll...only one home computer game that made the cut and NOT A SINGLE 8 bit computer game.

Lunacy...but inevitable in a generation that can't look beyond console gaming and high spec PC stuff. This is why the C64 died a death on VC and the home computer emulation experiment will now unfortunately end as everyone goes back to downloading their Mega Men and Mario Brothers and Nintendo nods their head sagely at the message that nobody wants or desires variety anymore.

[SKTTR]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

I think its pretty understandable why Nintendo didn't include a four and a half minute emulation of a cassette tape loading...

Except...that the emulation of loading is included in EPYX Winter Games (albeit only for five or six seconds between each event).

SKTTR, the reality is however that only our generation appreciates this kind of stuff. Just look at Jogurt's best game ever poll...only one home computer game that made the cut and NOT A SINGLE 8 bit computer game.

Lunacy...but inevitable in a generation that can't look beyond console gaming and high spec PC stuff. This is why the C64 died a death on VC and the home computer emulation experiment will now unfortunately end as everyone goes back to downloading their Mega Men and Mario Brothers and Nintendo nods their head sagely at the message that nobody wants or desires variety anymore.

It's a mess. I really thought emulating a C64 couldn't be that hard.

With a good team behind it, I hoped to get a fantastic C64 collection on my favourite console.

But no, the Commodore Gaming team is a bunch of apes without any knowledge of hacking a perfect C64 rom.

I was just watching proof that Last Ninja II is incomplete too in a similiar way.
I haven't realised it in the VC version because it actually has a title track.
But the original version of Last Ninja II had two different title screen tracks!!
One from the intro/loading sequence (missing in the VC version).
And the one in the actual title screen.
DAMN SHAME!





I haven't played Cybernoid and Nebulus on the VC, but I bet their intros, i.e. title screens are missing in the VC version.

Beta7, can you confirm when you start Cybernoid on VC the title art won't show. Watch this at 0:07.





Someone to confirm that the title screen of Nebulus is missing?

Even this cracked trainer version has it:

[Betagam7]

I have Nebulus and Cybernoid. Neither one has the Title Screen shown in those videos.

Cybernoid starts with the Title scrolling down. Nebulus doesn't have the picture of the submarine.

Like I say though I can totally see why the games don't emulate loading screens. Can you imagine how many people would complain to Nintendo that their game was frozen...oh that's right...only you and I actually buy C64 games if LN3 is any judge.
I'd like to buy a new C64 game but the remaining choices arn't very inspiring.

I already own 10 of the 19:

Boulder Dash
Uridium
Last Ninja 1
Last Ninja 2
Paradroid
Cybernoid
Nebulus
Impossible Mission
International Karate +
Mayhem in Monsterland
Winter Games

Therefore there's nothing really left for me other than sequels/prequels to games I already own. The "games" games don't really interest me and I don't want to buy a worse version of IK+ or a sequel to a game I havn't beaten in IM2.

That only leaves Jumpman (which looks like a C16 game!) or Pitstop 2 which looks uninspiring.

Whatever happened to Creatures 1 & 2, Wizball and the others that were rated.

Speaking of which, why havn't you bought an IK game yet SKTTR?

[SKTTR]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

I have Nebulus and Cybernoid. Neither one has the Title Screen shown in those videos.

Cybernoid starts with the Title scrolling down. Nebulus doesn't have the picture of the submarine.

Thanks for confirming the issues.

Like I say though I can totally see why the games don't emulate loading screens. Can you imagine how many people would complain to Nintendo that their game was frozen...oh that's right...only you and I actually buy C64 games if LN3 is any judge.

I can't see why.
SimEarth: The Living Planet emulates Turbografx-CD loading.
Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa emulates Famicom Disk System loading.

They don't even need to emulate the C64 disk loading or tape loading.

Just putting the intro/title-pic up there for a few seconds in Nebulus and Cybernoid would be enough.

Just let the loader/intro music run in Last Ninja I on the title screen where nothing plays at all anyway would be enough.

In Last Ninja II they could let the loader/intro music run in the title screen. And when you press a button, the other track starts playing, and then after pressing the button once again, the game starts.
That would be enough.

That would be neat. I don't need the rather generic loader screens. Just hack the original music and the original graphics into the game. They are important parts of the games!

But yes, it's "too hard to emulate", I just don't get it!
The unofficial hacked roms and disk images work like a charm, mostly with bugfixes and everything intact...
Sometimes even enhanced with online play and debug menu.
And of course perfect colors and border and customizable controls.
For me the C64 team on VC are still lazy suckers.

I'd like to buy a new C64 game but the remaining choices arn't very inspiring.

I already own 10 of the 19:

Boulder Dash
Uridium
Last Ninja 1
Last Ninja 2
Paradroid
Cybernoid
Nebulus
Impossible Mission
International Karate +
Mayhem in Monsterland
Winter Games

You mean 11 out of 18.

Therefore there's nothing really left for me other than sequels/prequels to games I already own. The "games" games don't really interest me and I don't want to buy a worse version of IK+ or a sequel to a game I havn't beaten in IM2.

I'd get Impossible Mission II, since I would beat Impossible Mission 1 any day. But Impossible Mission II is muuuch harder. How is the emulation of Impossible Mission 1? How does the game start?

That only leaves Jumpman (which looks like a C16 game!) or Pitstop 2 which looks uninspiring.

Don't be fooled by Jumpman's visuals. It makes you think it's a C16 game because it's from 1982, but each of the thirty stages is a surprise in gameplay and puzzle. And the controls work very well. It was one of the first games with an animated ending, a novelty in '82.

Pitstop II is a neat 2-player-racer. It had amazingly smooth splitscreen graphics for a 1984 game and was one of the best early racing games in the vein of Pole Position. Still looks clean and is perfectly playable. There's also strategy involved in when to brake and when to damage your wheels on all 6 courses. The pitstop sequence may feel awkward to play at first, but it's supposed to be like that, otherwise it wouldn't be so much fun in 2-player. Classic! Nintendo cloned it 6 years later with F1 Race on NES and Game Boy, but they scrapped the cool pitstop - would have looked to much like a rip-off I suppose.

Whatever happened to Creatures 1 & 2, Wizball and the others that were rated.

Speaking of which, why havn't you bought an IK game yet SKTTR?

Getting International Karate would make sense if the third fighter in IK+ starts to annoy you. Sometimes it's better just to concentrate on one enemy. But it's not comparable to the chaos and fun of a third fighter imo. It has better music than IK+ and eight backgrounds instead of just one. Eight backgrounds IF they've put both sides of the disk onto the VC image,
and I'm not sure how they did it. You could load SIDE A or SIDE B.
With the experience we have with C64 games on VC, it could be that only one side is emulated and the other half of the game is just scrapped, so we get only 4 of the 8 backgrounds in the VC version. That's what I'm frightened of and that's why I haven't bought it yet.

I always start with the first game, so if this is a complete and good version with 8 backgrounds and title screen, I will get this, and then I'll get IK+ too.


The other 3 games that are left, California Games, World Games and Summer Games II, I'm not interested in. You already have Winter Games which is the best of the bunch. Well Summer Games II is decent too with some simple minigames for up to 8 players.

[Betagam7]

SKTTR, I know you have tried emailing Commodore gaming before but have you tried this email address:

Taco van Sambeek
[email protected]

This is the guy who emailed me confirming the "technical issues" that prevented Last Ninja 3 from getting fixed.

If you email him and are nice to him then maybe you can get a resonse as to your issues rather than the wall of silence that comes from [email protected]

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

It's a mess. I really thought emulating a C64 couldn't be that hard.

I don't think the issue is that it's hard. I think, like Betagam7, that the issue is that nobody cares.