Ufouria

[Betagam7]

This actually looks a really nice mix of platforming and exploring and is something i'd never heard of first time around (my only previous exposure to Hebereke was when playing with his popoon).

HOWEVER...

I'm looking to clarify what the state of the PAL conversion is. This site claims that Sunsoft were known for optimising their 50hz outings properly, however I seem to recall people saying this wasn't the case with Blaster Master.

Can anybody offer a confirmation?

It'll also pose an interesting one for its NA "import" release as if its not properly optimised then NA's will effectively be paying 100 points extra to experience what we PAL owners have to put up with.

[kawaiipikachu]

Just download it & got on with your life.
I don't see the point about bickering about poor 50Hz converdion as it would never soves anything.

Lets put the two evils together
Evil #1: An un-optimoized game
Evil#2: No game at all
So Evil #1 is the lesser of the two evils.

[LinkFanatic]

Betagam7, I would like to know more info on this 50hz thing if you got the time. This is one of MANY posts where you mention PAL is inferior to everything else that's released. I like to learn new things, so this topic interests me. If you don't want to, I understand, I was just curious what the gaming industry over there is like. It seems like it sucks to be a gamer over there, but I may be just reading into something I don't understand. Anyway, choice is yours, I won't lose sleep over it any way it goes

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by kawaiipikachu

Just download it & got on with your life.
I don't see the point about bickering about poor 50Hz converdion as it would never soves anything.

Lets put the two evils together
Evil #1: An un-optimoized game
Evil#2: No game at all
So Evil #1 is the lesser of the two evils.

How about you just don't reply to my posts and get on with your own life instead of misreading a personally reasonable request for information on a game and choosing to deliver a reply that has nothing to do with the question I am asking.

Considering you are already on a warning for making similar trollish responses in threads about the 360 I'd be more careful if I were you.

Originally Posted by LinkFanatic

Betagam7, I would like to know more info on this 50hz thing if you got the time. This is one of MANY posts where you mention PAL is inferior to everything else that's released. I like to learn new things, so this topic interests me. If you don't want to, I understand, I was just curious what the gaming industry over there is like. It seems like it sucks to be a gamer over there, but I may be just reading into something I don't understand. Anyway, choice is yours, I won't lose sleep over it any way it goes

The article I wrote on the issue for Nintendo Life is linked to in my sig and contains everything I have to say on the matter (minus the bits they edited out).

Getting back to the question I asked though, has anyone yet downloaded this interesting looking game yet and can they comment on what the PAL game is like? Has it been optimised in any way that is noticeable? I'm guessing if we are talking original NES optimisation as giantbomb's website claims then the game might still have borders but be properly optimised for speed and music.

Any comments on the PAL conversion of Master Blaster...I know some PALers downloaded that one?

[slangman]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

This actually looks a really nice mix of platforming and exploring and is something i'd never heard of first time around (my only previous exposure to Hebereke was when playing with his popoon).

HOWEVER...

I'm looking to clarify what the state of the PAL conversion is. This site claims that Sunsoft were known for optimising their 50hz outings properly, however I seem to recall people saying this wasn't the case with Blaster Master.

Can anybody offer a confirmation?

Unfortunately This(50Hz), and This(NTSC mode) tell a different story. Music speed is different and if thats effected then I highly doubt the borders are removed nor will gameplay speed be optimized.

Originally Posted by Betagam7

It'll also pose an interesting one for its NA "import" release as if its not properly optimised then NA's will effectively be paying 100 points extra to experience what we PAL owners have to put up with.

Interestingly enough, PAL Mega Drive imports on the NA shop are actually optimized with no borders, normal speed of gameplay and music.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by slangman

Unfortunately This(50Hz), and This(NTSC mode) tell a different story. Music speed is different and if thats effected then I highly doubt the borders are removed nor will gameplay speed be optimized.



Interestingly enough, PAL Mega Drive imports on the NA shop are actually optimized with no borders, normal speed of gameplay and music.

It could well be that what you are seeing as "optimisation" is simply the reverse of what PALers get when an NTSC is forced into 50hz. Listen to the music and the gameplay speed which both seem a little too fast to be normal on the NTSC emulator you linked to. The video even includes a comment that says the refresh rate is too fast when compared to the Japanese original.

When run on an NTSC system a PAL game may automatically speed up and lose its borders because its running at the different refresh rate. It's unlikely then that Nintendo themselves then but NA gamers will probably get a version of the game that, while not having borders runs too fast and is therefore more difficult. This is also why C64 games run too fast in North America. It's a shame that both regions are now suffering because of this problem and nobody in the Western World is going to be able to play this (actually very good game) the way it was intended.

Anyway, I downloaded the game, it does have the usual borders which I expected but oddly has a third viertical border down the right hand side of the screen. I wondered if this was in some way done originally to squash the picture back into shape. It's difficult to tell because the charachter designs have also been changed for the Western version.

For £3.50 the game is worth checking out and I was prepared to break my own rule given that no 60hz original exists for Nintendo to have given us instead (other than the Japanese version) for its ROM factory.

It's a very nice mix of Zelda, Metroid and Wonderboy in Monsterland.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

This is also why C64 games run too fast in North America.

Shouldn't that only be a problem with imported PAL C64 games? While the C64 may not have been as popular in NA, we still did get many of those games.

[slangman]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

It could well be that what you are seeing as "optimisation" is simply the reverse of what PALers get when an NTSC is forced into 50hz. Listen to the music and the gameplay speed which both seem a little too fast to be normal on the NTSC emulator you linked to. The video even includes a comment that says the refresh rate is too fast when compared to the Japanese original.

I stand corrected. I listened to music of the Japanese version after I saw your comment and the PAL version did indeed have the music optimized. My fault.

Originally Posted by Betagam7

When run on an NTSC system a PAL game may automatically speed up and lose its borders because its running at the different refresh rate. It's unlikely then that Nintendo themselves then but NA gamers will probably get a version of the game that, while not having borders runs too fast and is therefore more difficult. This is also why C64 games run too fast in North America. It's a shame that both regions are now suffering because of this problem and nobody in the Western World is going to be able to play this (actually very good game) the way it was intended.

Well with Mega Drive imports they seem to run at the same speed as an ordinary NTSC game with the exact music rate of the Japanese and PAL versions. If a PAL Mega Drive ROM was just slapped on the NA VC (for example Alien Soldier), then it would actually run faster in all areas when compared to the Japanese and PAL version. So there is a possible chance that imports for NA tare optimized.

However since there aren't any NES imports for the NA VC, it's difficult to see whether NES imports will be optimized or run faster then it should, since it could differ for each VC library just like how Hanabi imports are handled on the PAL VC.

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Shouldn't that only be a problem with imported PAL C64 games? While the C64 may not have been as popular in NA, we still did get many of those games.

The C64 games currently on the NA VC run faster then they are supposed to. Both music and gameplay are effected, due to a lack of speed optimization, just as Betagam7 has said.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by slangman

The C64 games currently on the NA VC run faster then they are supposed to. Both music and gameplay are effected, due to a lack of speed optimization, just as Betagam7 has said.

Yeah. And I don't understand why that would be, i.e. why they would need speed optimization, if they were originally released in NA optimized for NTSC settings. Were the original NA C64 versions of these games also not optimized? Or is the NA VC getting EU/PAL (im)ports of these games for some reason? Those are really the only two explanations.

[SKTTR]

Either no one from NA uploads VC-C64 videos up to YouTube
or all the videos I've seen are the original PAL-versions running on NTSC-Wiis.
I haven't seen a speed difference yet. Links?

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Were the original NA C64 versions of these games also not optimized?

That's the long and short of it, yes.

Many C64 titles were developed in Europe and optimisation was pretty much unheard of in the 80's.

A similar problem can also be seen in the Genesis version of the PAL developed Shadow of the Beast, which is almost impossible to play because of its increased speed.

Since Ufouria is getting a NA release any day now it will be VERY interesting to see what, if any optimisation it gets. If its gets any at all then it will show an incredible disparity between the attitudes of NOA and NOE to the situation.

As it stands, and from all the comparison that can be made from youtube videos and my own experiments with the game running on a DS emulator it seems that the PAL VC version (like presumably the original) has optimised speed and music but unoptimised graphics with horizontal borders, squashed graphics (particularly notable in the throwable monsters left behing after jumping on an enemy which are round on the original and eliptical on the PAL version).

It also has that odd black bar down the right hand side of the screen which the original Japanese version doesn't have. However the original suffers from the sort of glitching seen in Super Mario Bros 3 where the right side of the screen glitches when the screen is scrolling that way. This doesn't happen with the PAL version, perhaps the bar was implemented to hide that?

A shame that all of this is distracting from the fact that Ufouria appears to be an awesome game.

[Sharecrow]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

That's the long and short of it, yes.

A similar problem can also be seen in the Genesis version of the PAL developed Shadow of the Beast, which is almost impossible to play because of its increased speed.

Not to change the subject (I never did play Ufouria...I'd like to, though), but Shadow of the Beast wasn't terribly playable in NA either. Awful hit detection and the complete absence of more than 1 life or continues of any kind... It had charm in a way, but it was a poorly executed game.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Sharecrow

Not to change the subject (I never did play Ufouria...I'd like to, though), but Shadow of the Beast wasn't terribly playable in NA either. Awful hit detection and the complete absence of more than 1 life or continues of any kind... It had charm in a way, but it was a poorly executed game.

He means it's more playable in PAL because it runs at the original speed. The NA version is the bad (worse) one.

Interesting about bad C64 ports even back in the day. I guess we're just lucky we got games straight out of Japan, who used the same NTSC format as us.

It's really hard to say whether Ufouria will be optimized... I kind of want to say it will, since Sunsoft seems to be really enthusiastic about taking the VC seriously, even though optimization of their game (is / may be?) out of their hands.

We'll see.

[Refa]

Have we even got a Megadrive game from UK? I thought all of ours were Japanese. At least that's the case with Pulseman.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Refa

Have we even got a Megadrive game from UK? I thought all of ours were Japanese. At least that's the case with Pulseman.

Which version of Alien Soldier did you guys get?

[Refa]

I dunno, haven't downloaded it. Is it the European version?

[slangman]

Sadly the NA version that has been released is sped up.
GoNintendo - Ufouria: THE SAGA - slight issues with speed

Actual VC footage
YouTube - Ufouria First Time Playthrough - part 1/12

This had better not be the standard for NES import releases in NA. I will not be paying an extra 100 points for a slap dash effort.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by slangman

Sadly the NA version that has been released is sped up.
GoNintendo - Ufouria: THE SAGA - slight issues with speed

Actual VC footage
YouTube - Ufouria First Time Playthrough - part 1/12

This had better not be the standard for NES import releases in NA

Seems kind of lazy. I guess I'll follow Betagam7's lead and not download it.

[slangman]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Seems kind of lazy. I guess I'll follow Betagam7's lead and not download it.

I won't be downloading this either. Quite ironic how the slower PAL VC version is actually superior than the gimped NA release.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by slangman

I won't be downloading this either. Quite ironic how the slower PAL VC version is actually superior than the gimped NA release.

It makes sense, though, if the Japanese game was properly optimized for its original PAL release, then it's not "slower" but "normal". I guess the NA import of this is a lazy speed-up of the PAL version rather than a port of the Japanese version.

[Sharecrow]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Seems kind of lazy. I guess I'll follow Betagam7's lead and not download it.

Me too. Yikes! I considered getting this yesterday, too...got distracted by baseball, though, fortunately.

[lordbowser]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Which version of Alien Soldier did you guys get?

Apparently we have the Japanese version, since I heard the PAL version didn't have the Xi-Tiger transformation cut scene.

[Refa]

So it's not a crippled port? I mean, apparently it's the Japanese version.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Refa

So it's not a crippled port? I mean, apparently it's the Japanese version.

Quote for context. Are you talking about Alien Soldier (off topic, apparently non-crippled port) or Ufouria (crippled port)?

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Quote for context. Are you talking about Alien Soldier (off topic, apparently non-crippled port) or Ufouria (crippled port)?

Whoops, my bad. I thought he was talking about Uforia. Drats, I guess this means we did get the crippled port.

[Betagam7]

The PAL version of Ufouria isn't slowed down at all from the Japanese version but it does have borders and a squashed look to it. It would be interesting to know what has become of these borders in the NA version.

Also, apparently its only the music that is speeded up in the NA "import" (through being shoved through some sort of dodgy emulation process) not the gameplay.

Either way, I hope this might convince you NAers to fire off a few emails of your own to Nintendo about poor regional conversions given that they are now influencing both sides of the PAL/NTSC coin.

[kawaiipikachu]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Either way, I hope this might convince you NAers to fire off a few emails of your own to Nintendo about poor regional conversions given that they are now influencing both sides of the PAL/NTSC coin.

Like i said i like to know a the voice of the minority would work wonder when it never worked before.

[Refa]

Originally Posted by kawaiipikachu

Like i said i like to know a the voice of the minority would work wonder when it never worked before.

...What?

[Sharecrow]

Originally Posted by kawaiipikachu

Like i said i like to know a the voice of the minority would work wonder when it never worked before.

Last Ninja 3 got removed from the EU Wii Shop. That wouldn't have happened if no one said anything. It's not as good as a fix, but it's better than a broken product being sold as though it weren't broken.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Refa

...What?

An idiot.

[Tides of Chaos]

It seems the geniuses at nintendolife are spreading word for people to buy Ufouria: Buy Ufouria If You Want More Quirky Virtual Console Titles - Nintendo Life: Virtual Console

Can't say I agree with it considering this isn't correctly optimized, but at least it's only the music and not the gameplay too like I thought it was.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

I wonder if this is because 1. they actually think that good sales of a quirky game will prompt more quirky games to be released, 2. they're depressed about the VC drought and are overreacting with a "OMAGER BUY NOW!" campaign, or 3. they have some "special contacts" (i.e. people they've emailed once) at SunSoft and they need to ride the bias hard promote their game to keep getting insider tips to legitimize their personal web log.

[Betagam7]

Who's Victor Ireland and what does his status as a "legendary translator" have to do with an already translated game showing up in NA?

[SKTTR]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Who's Victor Ireland and what does his status as a "legendary translator" have to do with an already translated game showing up in NA?

tHAT's the question.

[Sharecrow]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

I wonder if this is because 1. they actually think that good sales of a quirky game will prompt more quirky games to be released, 2. they're depressed about the VC drought and are overreacting with a "OMAGER BUY NOW!" campaign, or 3. they have some "special contacts" (i.e. people they've emailed once) at SunSoft and they need to ride the bias hard promote their game to keep getting insider tips to legitimize their personal web log.

I think it's probably 2...

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Sharecrow

I think it's probably 2...

That seems most likely, if it weren't for their embarrassing "inside (mis)info" Hudson fiasco shortly before they turned tail on this forum.

[Sharecrow]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

That seems most likely, if it weren't for their embarrassing "inside (mis)info" Hudson fiasco shortly before they turned tail on this forum.

Yeah, that was classic. I almost said '2 complimented by delusions of 3' but just stuck with 2.

Unfortunately, the Wii download service seems to be immune to market signals and the like or they wouldn't be holding back on stuff that would certainly sell...or fix some of their pricing that's not aligned with the market...or...whatever. I should just buy an NES and a bunch of carts off eBay

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Sharecrow

or fix some of their pricing that's not aligned with the market

Yeah.

And yeah to your suggestion of getting an NES and carts. Especially if you get a good working one, a new one, one with a replaced pin connector, or a top-loader.

[Refa]

Yeah, NES games are generally as cheap as, if not cheaper, than their VC counterparts. Unfortunately, the same could not be said for other games that VC emulates (e.g. TG-16).

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Refa

Yeah, NES games are generally as cheap as, if not cheaper, than their VC counterparts. Unfortunately, the same could not be said for other games that VC emulates (e.g. TG-16).

Depends on what market you're talking about. Used game market? Most companies don't care too much about that other than that they don't want you using it.

When I think of whack VC/WW pricing, I think of the complete lack of sales, promotions, etc. Static prices for the most part are pretty lame. An obvious example of this is something like World of Goo that sits at $15 while Steam and other distributors put it on sale all the time. I guess it's not really fair to compare any digital distribution service to Steam, though.

Also, what's up with Genesis games for $8 when they're cheaper on almost every other service ever ($2-4 on iTunes, $5 on PSN/XBLA, ~$1 on PS360 compilation, Steam, etc.)? It's almost like Nintendo has an obligation to stick with its arbitrary 500-600-800-1000 price points and has to leave Genesis game prices alone on the principle that the system was equivalent to the SNES. Sorry Nintendo, while you may not be pimping SNES games out to every service in town (because you have to run your own), Sega has no such commitment, and they're making a lot of money on their old stuff on every service but the VC through savvy blanket marketing.

So yeah, NES/SNES/N64 games are off the books because they can only be distributed through one service (unless you count DS/3DS ports for $$$, which isn't really the same market anyway, so the point is moot). If TG16 starts getting more games on PSN and Steam like what was rumoured to be happening a while back, then we might see those prices trounce the VC too. For now, though, the VC is the best place to get whatever TG16 games they've made available.