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Old 3rd June 2010   #1
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Post Hand-written "guide" to Super Mario 64!

It's-a Mario time!

I have been a HUGE fanboy for Super Mario 64 since I was eight years old. I have completed it more than 20 times over a course of 13 years, but at the same time never really been part of any gamer community. I consider myself a casual gamer nowadays, but this game still brings forth some kind of scary demon or something in me - and now, this demon has had an offspring!

Being fond of making things far more complicated than they have to be, I have developed many specific orders in which to complete the stars of the game. One of these I like more than the others; it is based on the idea that the hardest/most high-level stars possible always should be the next you take on. However, in order to know what stars are available at what times, one needs to know every last detail about the game's inner workings - and I am both creeped out and happy about the fact that I found out all these things myself!
I have dubbed this order the "Ultimate Mario". If you follow it, it sometimes seems as though numbers make sense (for instance, the 50th, 60th and 90th stars you complete are all the last ones you complete in three different main courses), but perhaps I am just starting to go crazy Anyway, one day, as I sat by the Wii playing away a cold, my demon and I started writing and drawing a Ultimate Mario Guide so that I could share my method with others! Things got way out of control, and I ended up putting more than five full workdays into a guide not only detailing the Ultimate Mario, but also
- going through most of Mario's moves, with some "protips"
- boasting a detailed use of symbols (mostly for sorting stars into several types of categories and making sense of their availability as you progress through the game)
- explaining these symbols extensively
- making up names for all the unnamed stars in the game, keeping with some of the English version's pun-tastic tradition
- ending with a lot of completely unnecessary statistics
- being difficult to understand, despite my efforts to explain things

And, for all of you who understandably did not read all that:

HAY PEOPLE!
I MADE A GUIDE FOR SUPER MARIO 64! IT'S GOT DRAWINGS AND STUFF! CHECK IT OUT!

Anyway, here's the link: http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0...UwMjQ3ZWI4ZmUw

Enjoy, I guess? Feel free to flame me about this being a bunch of gibberish from a sad person who needs to get outside more, as this is true

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Old 5th June 2010   #2
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I had a look but to be honest it just seems to be a list of the stars in the game, not really a guide to how to get them. So what exactly is this meant to be? A hard run?

Welcome to the forums anyway.
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Old 5th June 2010   #3
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What's the name of your demon? And did you credit him in your guide?
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Old 5th June 2010   #4
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Just looked over it. It looks like you put a lot of work into this. I still don't seem to get the point of it though? Couldn't you have just listed which order you get the stars? I didn't fully understand the other stuff. Nice work though! SM64 must be one of your favs if you are this dedicated! Welcome to the forums.
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Old 6th June 2010   #5
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Default The Ultimate Mario Guide order in list form

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betagam7 View Post
So what exactly is this meant to be? A hard run?

Welcome to the forums anyway.
Yeah, I guess a hard run is what it is. And thanks for welcoming me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonRamune View Post
What's the name of your demon? And did you credit him in your guide?
It was just a fancy way of describing my raging obsession with SM64 ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreegs View Post
Couldn't you have just listed which order you get the stars? I didn't fully understand the other stuff.
Hm, that would have been about 9001 times easier.. :P I guess I just thought that would be too un-fancy and not enough to share with
people, so I also added a whole lot of more stuff I came up with. The only aspect of the guide (beside the Ultimate Mario order) that
isn't in just for the spectacle is my noting of which power-ups are bare necessities, indirectly challenging people to do the stars
with no other power-ups than those noted. Errr, but anyway, here is the Ultimate Mario in simple list form:

MC = Main course, SC = Secret course, BC = Bowser course

MC1 = Bob-omb Battlefield - 1st floor
MC2 = Whomp's Fortress - 1st floor
MC3 = Jolly Roger Bay - 1st floor
MC4 = Cool, Cool Mountain - 1st floor
MC5 = Big Boo's Haunt - castle backyard
MC6 = Hazy Maze Cave - basement
MC7 = Lethal Lava Land - basement
MC8 = Shifting Sand Land - basement
MC9 = Dire, Dire Docks - basement
MC10 = Snowman's Land - 2nd floor
MC11 = Wet-Dry World - 2nd floor
MC12 = Tall, Tall Mountain - 2nd floor
MC13 = Tiny-Huge Island - 2nd floor
MC14 = Tick Tock Clock - 3rd floor
MC15 = Rainbow Ride - 3rd floor

SC1 = The Princess' Secret Slide - 1st floor
SC2 = The Secret Aquarium - 1st floor
SC3 = Cavern of the Metal Cap - the lake in Hazy Maze Cave
SC4 = Vanish Cap Under the Moat - castle courtyard
SC5 = Tower of the Wing Cap - 1st floor
SC6 = Wing Mario Over the Rainbow - 3rd floor

BC1 = Bowser in the Dark World - 1st floor
BC2 = Bowser in the Fire Sea - basement
BC3 = Bowser in the Sky - at the end of the "endless" stairs

  1. MC1, 1 star: Star 6 (Behind Chain Chomp's Gate)
  2. SC1, 2 stars (this is a point in the game where my order rules do not apply; they are both secret, unnumbered and the "hardest" ones you could be taking on at this point)
  3. SC2, 1 star
  4. MC4, 4 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Wall Kicks Will Work) - star 4 (Frosty Slide for 8 Red Coins) - star 2 (Li'l Penguin Lost)
  5. BC1, 1 star
  6. SC3, 1 star
  7. SC4, 1 star
  8. SC5, 1 star
  9. Talk to the Toad by the entrance to Hazy Maze Cave
  10. MC8, 7 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Pyramid Puzzle) - star 5 (Free Flying for 8 Red Coins) - star 4 (Stand Tall on the Four Pillars) - star 3 (Inside the Ancient Pyramid) - star 2 (Shining Atop the Pyramid) - star 1 (In the Talons of the Big Bird)
  11. Catch Mips the Bunny in the basement
  12. MC7, 7 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Elevator Tour in the Volcano) - star 5 (Hot-Foot-It into the Volcano) - star 4 (Red-Hot Log Rolling) - star 3 (8-coin Puzzle with 15 Pieces) - star 2 (Bully the Bullies) - star 1 (Boil the Big Bully)
  13. MC6, 2 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Watch for Rolling Rocks)
  14. MC9, 4 stars: Star 6 (Collect the Caps...) - star 4 (Through the Jet Stream [2]) - star 2 (Chests in the Current) - star 1 (Board Bowser's Sub)
  15. BC2, 1 star
  16. Talk to the Toad on the 2nd floor under the stairs
  17. MC13, 7 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Make Wiggler Squirm) - star 5 (Wiggler's Red Coins) - star 4 (Five Itty Bitty Secrets) - star 2 (The Tip of the Huge Island) - star 1 (Pluck the Piranha Flower) - star 3 (Rematch with Koopa the Quick)
  18. MC12, 7 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Blast to the Lonely Mushroom) - star 5 (Breathtaking View From Bridge) - star 4 (Mysterious Mountainside) - star 3 (Scary 'Shrooms, Red Coins) - star 1 (Scale the Mountain) - star 2 (Mystery of the Monkey Cage)
  19. Talk to the Toad on the 3rd floor
  20. SC6, 1 star
  21. Catch Mips the Bunny in the basement again
  22. MC15, 7 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Somewhere Over the Rainbow) - star 5 (Tricky Triangles!) - star 4 (Swingin' in the Breeze) - star 3 (Coins Amassed in a Maze) - star 2 (The Big House in the Sky) - star 1 (Cruiser Crossing the Rainbow - now we're halfway there!)
  23. MC14, 7 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Stop Time for Red Coins) - star 5 (Timed Jumps on Moving Bars) - star 4 (Stomp on the Thwomp) - star 3 (Get a Hand) - star 2 (The Pit and the Pendulums) - star 1 (Roll into the Cage)
  24. MC11, 3 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Quick Race Through Downtown!) - star 5 (Go to Town for Red Coins)
  25. BC3, 1 star
  26. MC11, 4 stars: Star 4 (Express Elevator -- Hurry Up!) - star 3 (Secrets in the Shallows & Sky) - star 2 (Top o' The Town) - star 1 (Shocking Arrow Lifts!)
  27. MC10, 7 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Into the Igloo) - star 5 (Shell Shreddin' for Red Coins) - star 4 (Whirl from the Freezing Pond) - star 3 (In the Deep Freeze) - star 2 (Chill with the Bully) - star 1 (Snowman's Big Head)
  28. MC9, 3 stars: 100 coin star - star 5 (The Manta Ray's Reward) - star 3 (Pole-Jumping for Red Coins)
  29. MC6, 5 stars: Star 5 (A-Maze-Ing Emergency Exit) - star 4 (Navigating the Toxic Maze) - star 3 (Metal-Head Mario Can Move!) - star 2 (Elevate for 8 Red Coins) - star 1 (Swimming Beast in the Cavern)
  30. MC5, 7 stars: 100 coin star - star 6 (Eye to Eye in the Secret Room) - star 5 (Big Boo's Balcony) - star 4 (Seek the 8 Red Coins) - star 3 (Secret of the Haunted Books) - star 1 (Go on a Ghost Hunt) - star 2 (Ride Big Boo's Merry-Go-Round)
  31. MC4, 3 stars: Star 1 (Slip Slidin' Away) - star 3 (Big Penguin Race) - star 5 (Snowman's Lost His Head)
  32. MC3, 7 stars: Star 3 (Treasure of the Ocean Cave) - star 1 (Plunder in the Sunken Ship) - 100 coin star - star 6 (Through the Jet Stream [1]) - star 5 (Blast to the Stone Pillar) - star 4 (Red Coins on the Ship Afloat) - star 2 (Can the Eel Come Out to Play?)
  33. MC2, 7 stars: 100 coin star - star 4 (Red Coins on the Floating Isle) - star 3 (Shoot Into the Wild Blue) - star 1 (Chip off Whomp's Block) - star 2 (To the Top of the Fortress) - star 6 (Blast Away the Wall) - star 5 (Fall Onto the Caged Island)
  34. MC1, 6 stars: 100 coin star - star 4 (Find the 8 Red Coins) - star 3 (Shoot to the Island in the Sky) - star 1 (Big Bob-Omb on the Summit) - star 5 (Mario Wings to the Sky) - star 2 (Footrace with Koopa the Quick)
So, yeah - there it is. And if anyone have any questions about playing the game, there is a good chance I know the answer

Last edited by WP CEO; 6th June 2010 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 6th June 2010   #6
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I'm a SM64 master myself and have beaten the game countless times in various ways, just like you.
You're welcome but I already have my own favourite master-challenge of playing and beating the game.
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Old 6th June 2010   #7
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Originally Posted by SKTTR View Post
I'm a SM64 master myself and have beaten the game countless times in various ways, just like you.
You're welcome but I already have my own favourite master-challenge of playing and beating the game.
We all know you have still to beat your first game SKTTR, stop trying to impress the new kids with your tall tales!

You couldn't even complete Xbox live installation.
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Old 6th June 2010   #8
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Originally Posted by Betagam7 View Post
We all know you have still to beat your first game SKTTR, stop trying to impress the new kids with your tall tales!

You couldn't even complete Xbox live installation.
HAHAHAHAHRRR!
And I have completed the XBox Live installation!!!!!
It only took me one hour!

It was just quite bothersome, amorphous and timewasting when you're accustomed to Nintendo's and iMac's user-friendly, supereasy and superfast online setup.

It seems unacceptable and ignorant that you need a computer and an email-account before you're allowed to get online with your Xbox360.
XBox' online attitude is so horrid!
And don't let me start on the need of a LAN-cable and that there's no internet browser and that a monthly Silver memebrship costs 8 Euro. It's so morbid stoneage!

It seems like Microsoft wasted all their money on the graphics chip (once again) and didnt care about everything else that's important.
At least it has USB-keyboard support (what a relief!) and USB slots (thank god!)

Anway, I haven't even played Xbox360 today.

Yesterday night I was browsing the XBox Live Marketplace for the first time. And man, this is such a big pile of expensive and crappy games. It's like a chaotic shytty bargain bin where everything is unsorted and ugly, compared to the Wii Shop that is a tidy, clean, sorted shelf of lowpriced and mostly exclusive quality games.

Last edited by SKTTR; 6th June 2010 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 6th June 2010   #9
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Originally Posted by SKTTR View Post
HAHAHAHAHRRR!
And I have completed the XBox Live installation!!!!!
It only took me one hour!

It was just quite bothersome, amorphous and timewasting when you're accustomed to Nintendo's and iMac's user-friendly, supereasy and superfast online setup.

It seems unacceptable and ignorant that you need a computer and an email-account before you're allowed to get online with your Xbox360.
XBox' online attitude is so horrid!
And don't let me start on the need of a LAN-cable and that there's no internet browser and that a monthly Silver memebrship costs 8 Euro. It's so morbid stoneage!

It seems like Microsoft wasted all their money on the graphics chip (once again) and didnt care about everything else that's important.
At least it has USB-keyboard support (what a relief!) and USB slots (thank god!)

Anway, I haven't even played Xbox360 today.

Yesterday night I was browsing the XBox Live Marketplace for the first time. And man, this is such a big pile of expensive and crappy games. It's like a chaotic shytty bargain bin where everything is unsorted and ugly, compared to the Wii Shop that is a tidy, clean, sorted shelf of lowpriced and mostly exclusive quality games.
I havn't been on it in a while but I found it far sleeker than the Wii. Games are organised into topics and easily moved between with sleek instantly changing menus...not waiting five seconds for a screen change while an annoying tune plays on loop in the background.

Your collection of downloaded games is stored in a handy menu that again hides itself neatly away when not being used...you know instead of the clunky and untidy "channel" system Nintendo picked because it thought nobody would ever have more than a handful of downloads!

On the 360 if you find a game you are interested in you can download a demo of it for free first...or failing that at least view a trailer.

With the Wii you have to make do with a tiny screenshot that you can't even zoom in at for a closer look and a 50 word summary...unless that is Nintendo decides to let you have a demo of a wopping 4 of its 500+ titles once a year...because its christmas!

Hmm, I wonder why Marketplace is a huge success whereas Nintendo is having to bribe nerds to get them to tell people about the Wii shops existance

The only advantage I see the Wii having is the free online play...but then as I rarely play games online this isn't really outweighing everything else XBLA has going for it.

And this is before we even come to my favorite topic...try comparing Streets of Rage or any other retro game available on the two systems if you're puzzled to what that is!
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Old 7th June 2010   #10
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That's some obvious trollage Beta:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollan'
XBox' online [is] so morbid stoneage! Yesterday night I was browsing the XBox Live Marketplace for the first time. And man, this is such a big pile of expensive and crappy games.
Obvious. I always prefer a more subtle / satirical troll.
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Old 7th June 2010   #11
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Originally Posted by Betagam7 View Post
I havn't been on it in a while but I found it far sleeker than the Wii. Games are organised into topics and easily moved between with sleek instantly changing menus...not waiting five seconds for a screen change while an annoying tune plays on loop in the background
Well, I don't mind the 3~7 seconds of loading time as that is fast enough.
And the short looped jingle never disturbed me.
But yeah, instant switches and no loading times are sleek indeed.
I liked the big wallpaper background themes for each game. That's something Nintendo should steal.

But the organization of games just doesn't get along with my sense of absolute order.

Quote:
Your collection of downloaded games is stored in a handy menu that again hides itself neatly away when not being used...you know instead of the clunky and untidy "channel" system Nintendo picked because it thought nobody would ever have more than a handful of downloads!
Well, ok, I haven't downloaded anything from the marketplace as there was no game I would jump to play.. Braid, maybe. Shadow Complex. Castle Crashers. Hmm.. Worms.. but I'll wait for the WiiWare version. You know multiplayer/party games fit better on the Wii and Wiimote pointer makes Worms a better experience. Well, I shut it off slightly disappointed, and downloaded BIT.TRIP RUNNER on WiiWare instead. Anyway... you're right with the Wii channels. I have 126 games downloaded from the Wii Shop (anecdote: Last Ninja 3 was my 100th. What a jubilee!!) and it's getting bothersome to always order them up in a nice way. Especially games with 5 episodes like Monkey Island or Art Style or Strong Bad - there's absolutely no way to order them up in a nice way in a 3x4 grid. I wish for a channel where you can list them in a neat way.
But Xbox360's organization is not my cup of tea either. A functional and practical list, like some sort of organizer would be great!

Quote:
On the 360 if you find a game you are interested in you can download a demo of it for free first...or failing that at least view a trailer.

With the Wii you have to make do with a tiny screenshot that you can't even zoom in at for a closer look and a 50 word summary...unless that is Nintendo decides to let you have a demo of a wopping 4 of its 500+ titles once a year...because its christmas!
Once every 4 years and I don't need demos, and so I really don't care about this argument.

My opinion on this: It's a double-edged sword - for us and the developers:
There's the obvious "If the game is crap the demo keeps one from buying it"-reason and the not so obvious "Just make the demo (the first stage) as cool and beautiful as possible, then the rest of the game can be crap"-reason.
A demo tempts to make things worse. An (instant loading) video on the Nintendo channel is worth the same imo.


Quote:
Hmm, I wonder why Marketplace is a huge success whereas Nintendo is having to bribe nerds to get them to tell people about the Wii shops existance
Because in reality Nintendo's online service isn't doing half as bad as they say! They even have a weekly magazine and dozens of features every week on Nintendo Channel - translated in 8 European languages!) They just want more more more people to get into it. People that haven#t connected their Wiis to the internet yet. A pretty smart move.

Quote:
The only advantage I see the Wii having is the free online play...but then as I rarely play games online this isn't really outweighing everything else XBLA has going for it.
Well, I think free online play is much more important than most of your arguments, like free demos for instance. Never offense / Just imo.

Quote:
And this is before we even come to my favorite topic...try comparing Streets of Rage or any other retro game available on the two systems if you're puzzled to what that is!
Is this about your 60Hz passion?
It's not such an important issue for me, as I'm confindet with the original PAL versions too, as long as they sound and feel 100% like the originals (the main reason I haven't downloaded more C64 or N64 games).

PS. As this is completely off-topic discussion, I'd rather continue this somewhere else.

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Old 8th June 2010   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKTTR View Post
Well, I don't mind the 3~7 seconds of loading time as that is fast enough.
It's more than that though.
Also the downloading is stupid you have to wait ages (depending on size of game though) and watch mario hit blocks, instead of letting you background download.
On the 360 you can download stuff and play a game while you wait, or browse more content or watch a video. Etc

Quote:

But the organization of games just doesn't get along with my sense of absolute order.
Different catagories for type of game: Arcade, Indie, Game addons, Full games, Xbox originals. With alphabetical lists available in each section too confusing?

Quote:
Well, ok, I haven't downloaded anything from the marketplace as there was no game I would jump to play.. Braid, maybe. Shadow Complex. Castle Crashers. Hmm.. Worms.. but I'll wait for the WiiWare version. You know multiplayer/party games fit better on the Wii and Wiimote pointer makes Worms a better experience. Well, I shut it off slightly disappointed, and downloaded BIT.TRIP RUNNER on WiiWare instead.
If a library with many excellent and affordable games doesn't interest you why did you get the xbox 360?

To instantly describe the whole Xbox 360 library as 'crappy and expensive' without even playing any of them, is ridiulous and childish.
Of the 3 services (PSN/Wiiware/XBLA) it has the highest number of highly rated new games.
I'll admit its retro selection is the weakest of the 3 though with VC in an obvious lead but then Wiiwares full of so much crap though and definately could benefit from some better releases and less shovelware.

I'm not really sure where this 'expensive' thing is coming from.
Sonic 1 - Wiiware 800 points £6
XBLA 400 points - Less than £3.50.

And the same goes for many of the games available on both services, like Perfect dark an enhanced port of an N64 game is 800 points, less than the N64 games on the VC.
There's some 1500 point games too which are more expensive than any XBLA game.
The main pricepoint is 800 points which is about £6.50, with occasional games being 1200 points but often worth it like Shadow complex, Serious Sam HD etc. And Indie games are often stupidly cheap like 80 points.
The xbox 360 games on demand are pretty expensive but I'd rather have the disc version anyway for resale value and to not take up space on my HDD.


And then theres the weekly sales with most addon packs/arcade games being on sale at least once or twice in the year.

Quote:

But Xbox360's organization is not my cup of tea either. A functional and practical list, like some sort of organizer would be great!
Fair enough if you don't like it but that doesn't make it not functional or practical just because YOU don't seem to understand simple catagories and sections...

Works fine for me I always know exactly where to go for what I want.

Quote:
My opinion on this: It's a double-edged sword - for us and the developers:
There's the obvious "If the game is crap the demo keeps one from buying it"-reason and the not so obvious "Just make the demo (the first stage) as cool and beautiful as possible, then the rest of the game can be crap"-reason.
A demo tempts to make things worse. An (instant loading) video on the Nintendo channel is worth the same imo.
A video is not the same as a demo, you can't get a feel for a game from a video like you can from actually playing a demo.
Also you mention that you think developers will just use the best stuff from the game for the demo (Although I rarely see this, normally I see people saying the demo wasn't great but the full game was awesome) but a video is worse for this, they can just take pre-scripted gameplay and great looking scenes to try and sell the game, hiding glitches, poor controls, or other important features.
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Old 8th June 2010   #13
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It's more than that though.
Also the downloading is stupid you have to wait ages (depending on size of game though) and watch mario hit blocks, instead of letting you background download.
On the 360 you can download stuff and play a game while you wait, or browse more content or watch a video. Etc
You got a point, it wouldn't be bearable to download some 900+ MB game while watching Mario jumping against blocks all the time, but the biggest downloadable games in the Wii Shop are 40MB and 5 minutes of download time at most (with a standard connection) so not a big deal. We have very different proportions here.


Quote:
Different catagories for type of game: Arcade, Indie, Game addons, Full games, Xbox originals. With alphabetical lists available in each section too confusing?
I just want to have my own arrangement and don't want anyone to tell me this is an indie game and this is arcade. I will not adopt a messed up system. I want to clean up and sort my game shelf in the order I want. The Wii is a little better in that regard with its movable channels.

Quote:
To instantly describe the whole Xbox 360 library as 'crappy and expensive' without even playing any of them, is ridiulous and childish.
Expensive because it is more expensive than on the Wii imo.
2000 Wii Points = 20 €
2000 XBox Points = 25 €
Your 800 Points game is in reality a 1050 Points game.

Crappy because too much of not-my-taste: war fps, classic control sports games, generic racers. And most of the rest I already know (barely any good exclusives)

Quote:
Of the 3 services (PSN/Wiiware/XBLA) it has the highest number of highly rated new games.
Eh, highly rated? Where? Why??
I simply don't care for ratings, not on Xbox and not on Wii and never.

Quote:
I'm not really sure where this 'expensive' thing is coming from.
Sonic 1 - Wiiware 800 points £6
XBLA 400 points - Less than £3.50.
Nice sample.

Well, I got Sonic 1 (and 2 and 3 each) for 500 Wii Points = 5 €.
I would have never paid more than that.
400 Points on Xbox = 5,20€ so....

Quote:
And the same goes for many of the games available on both services, like Perfect dark an enhanced port of an N64 game is 800 points, less than the N64 games on the VC.
Yeah it's great. When I saw Perfect Dark, and Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie, I wanted them. But no, why should I? I still have them all (and 80 other N64 games) on my robust neverending original N64 system, in mint condition. (That's the reason why I have downloaded only two N64 games on VC)

Quote:
There's some 1500 point games too which are more expensive than any XBLA game.
Really? I saw downloadable games for 40 € on Xbox360, and with add-on content they would even exceed the 6700 Points of the most expensive downloadable Wii game My Life as a Darklord.

Quote:
The main pricepoint is 800 points which is about £6.50, with occasional games being 1200 points but often worth it like Shadow complex, Serious Sam HD etc. And Indie games are often stupidly cheap like 80 points.
Hmm.. I will have a closer look then.
Games for 80 pts must be a complete waste.
Any gems in that pricepoint?

Quote:
And then theres the weekly sales with most addon packs/arcade games being on sale at least once or twice in the year.
Cool. When's the next one?

Quote:
A video is not the same as a demo, you can't get a feel for a game from a video like you can from actually playing a demo.
Well, I'm not a newb in games so I can tell if a game is for me.
I just need a video. And if that's not significant enough I read a review with the Wii's Internet Channel (if I had no PC and Mac).

Quote:
Also you mention that you think developers will just use the best stuff from the game for the demo (Although I rarely see this, normally I see people saying the demo wasn't great but the full game was awesome) but a video is worse for this, they can just take pre-scripted gameplay and great looking scenes to try and sell the game, hiding glitches, poor controls, or other important features.
I have nothing against demos. Fine if you like them. But I simply never really needed any.

If I had not much money, or just no money for games,
and would like to play something, for free!!,
then yes, that would be the best reason to want demos,
but I have enough money and enough great games that I have no time for
and enough experience with a lifetime of videogames
so demos are not of importance to me.

Certain games always convince me to get them and certain games don't convince me to get them,
and I never needed a demo to change my opinion, and when it happened that I've played a demo,
it never changed my mind, except there was no review or video or some kind of preview beforehand.

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Old 8th June 2010   #14
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Ninte—
So, in other words, what you're saying is:

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Old 8th June 2010   #15
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So, in other words, what you're saying is:



Tihs is Nitendo board TRAITOR! Go belong yor wixbox forum!1!

whatz happen to your VERMIN avatar?ßß can

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Old 8th June 2010   #16
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tihs is nitendo board traitor! Go belong yor wixbox forum!1!

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suck my oenis! Marrio the best!!11^°^^





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Old 8th June 2010   #17
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Reading Ouenben's post has made me realise how much I want to drag that phone lead across the living room and get back onto Live Arcade. It's hilarious that you can get Sonic for £3.50 in perfect 60hz with extras yet Nintendo thinks selling it for double that in a basic broken down 50hz format will pull in the punters!

Its double hilarious that at the rate its going Live arcade will end up with more N64 titles than the Wii
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Old 8th June 2010   #18
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Expensive because it is more expensive than on the Wii imo.
2000 Wii Points = 20 €
2000 XBox Points = 25 €
Your 800 Points game is in reality a 1050 Points game.

Really? I saw downloadable games for 40 € on Xbox360, and with add-on content they would even exceed the 6700 Points of the most expensive downloadable Wii game My Life as a Darklord.
.
I didn't know Europe was being so ripped off. Here in the UK it's:
2100 points £17.50 on the XBL Marketplace or in shops though I often obtain my points cards for £14
2000 wii points £15 from the shop channel or £19.99 in retails shops.

I said XBLA game not any game, I wasn't including the 'Games on demand' games as they are overpriced. And can be had pretty cheap from stores, specially second hand.
The Arcade section is what I'm talking about and the most expensive price for any game is 1200 points.
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Old 8th June 2010   #19
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I didn't know Europe was being so ripped off. Here in the UK it's:
2100 points £17.50 on the XBL Marketplace or in shops though I often obtain my points cards for £14
2000 wii points £15 from the shop channel or £19.99 in retails shops.

I said XBLA game not any game, I wasn't including the 'Games on demand' games as they are overpriced. And can be had pretty cheap from stores, specially second hand.
The Arcade section is what I'm talking about and the most expensive price for any game is 1200 points.
Sounds funny, as... like UK isn't part of EU.
But yeah, UK prices are better than German prices in that regard.
Well 1200 XBox Points are equal to 1500 Wii Points. And there really are no add-on/pay&play games on XBLA that are horribly overpriced like Darklord?

Seeing in your backlog signature you're playing Red Dead now.
I have played the prequel. Is it the same or is it much better?
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Old 8th June 2010   #20
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Considering XBLA can't have the best N64 games, which are the Nintendo developed games, it'll never be better in that specific regard.
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Old 9th June 2010   #21
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Considering XBLA can't have the best N64 games, which are the Nintendo developed games, it'll never be better in that specific regard.
Even though I have the tendency to agree, it's a rather subjective claim considering that Rare is frequently regarded as the developer that kept the N64 going by producing top-quality titles for it.

XBLA already has:

Banjo Kazooie
Banjo Tooie
Perfect Dark
Conker: Live and Reloaded

which, considering they were considered among the N64's top echelon of games is an impressive achievment (no pun intended) for a rival console.

If it could find a way to put up Goldeneye, JFG and Blast Corps then it would certainly be healthily competing with Nintendo's own 1st party output. Nintendo is ultimately lucky in a way that several of Rare's big hits are disqualified from XBLA arrival by featuring Nintendo properties.
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Old 9th June 2010   #22
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Nintendo is ultimately lucky in a way that several of Rare's big hits are disqualified from XBLA arrival by featuring Nintendo properties.
...which are only two N64 games and at the same time the worst games Rare has produced for the N64: Donkey Kong 64 and Diddy Kong Racing! (And both need heavy editing: Jetpac in DK64 and Conker&Banjo in DKR).

So I wouldn't call it lucky on Nintendos side. The luck's definately on M$ side: I'd rather have Jet Force Gemini, Blast Corps, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, GoldenEye, Perfect Dark and Killer Instinct Gold on VC.

Oh I just remember... ok, if we took the SNES into consideration with the Donkey Kong Country trilogy then I suppose the lucks on our side, yes. But I want more! I want Rare's full N64 VC support of course like every other sane person.
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Old 9th June 2010   #23
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...which are only two N64 games and at the same time the worst games Rare has produced for the N64: Donkey Kong 64 and Diddy Kong Racing! (And both need heavy editing: Jetpac in DK64 and Conker&Banjo in DKR).

So I wouldn't call it lucky on Nintendos side. The luck's definately on M$ side: I'd rather have Jet Force Gemini, Blast Corps, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, GoldenEye, Perfect Dark and Killer Instinct Gold on VC.

Oh I just remember... ok, if we took the SNES into consideration with the Donkey Kong Country trilogy then I suppose the lucks on our side, yes. But I want more! I want Rare's full N64 VC support of course like every other sane person.
I just meant lucky for them that Rare can't do even more damage to their potential sales...not that they seem concerned about losing those sales anyway given their seemingly couldn't care less attitude to making what Rare N64 games they could available on VC.

Rare have already said that the ball is in Nintendo's court...the problem is that Nintendo has taken the ball home with them and is refusing to let anyone else use it out of spite...something that makes no sense given that it was NINTENDO who sold Rare to MS in the first place.

SIDE NOTE: Are people still using the "M$" thing? News Flash, all of these companies are greedy and want your money and Nintendo is among the worst of them. Microsoft has at least demonstrated that it cares about what its customers want while Nintendo erects wall after wall of silence and makes bad jokes about geeks and otaku.
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Old 9th June 2010   #24
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Originally Posted by Betagam7 View Post
Even though I have the tendency to agree, it's a rather subjective claim considering that Rare is frequently regarded as the developer that kept the N64 going by producing top-quality titles for it.
It's not just you, it's general consensus. Let's take a look at both of their N64 games.

NINTENDO
1080 Snowboarding
Animal Forest
Custom Robo
Custom Robo V2
Doshin The Giant
Doshin The Giant Expansion Kits (there were 2 of them)
Dr. Mario 64
Excitebike 64
F-Zero X
F-Zero X Expansion Kit
Hey, You Pikachu! (let's pretend this one doesn't exist...)
Kirby 64 The Crystal Shards
The Legend Of Zelda Ocarina Of Time
The Legend Of Zelda Majora's Mask
Mario Artist (there were 4 of them)
Mario Golf
Mario Kart 64
Mario Party
Mario Party 2
Mario Party 3
Mario Tennis
Mischief Makers
Paper Mario
Pilotwings 64
Pokemon Puzzle League
Pokemon Snap
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Sin & Punishment
Star Fox 64
Super Mario 64
Super Smash Bros.
Wave Race 64
Yoshi's Story
Shigesato Itoi's No. 1 Bass Fishing

RARE
Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Blast Corps
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Diddy Kong Racing
Donkey Kong 64
Jet Force Gemini
Killer Instinct Gold
GoldenEye007
Perfect Dark

Rare's output was been kinda samey (almost half of their games have been 3D platformers), while Nintendo's was much more diverse.
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Old 9th June 2010   #25
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Originally Posted by Refa View Post
It's not just you, it's general consensus. Let's take a look at both of their N64 games.

NINTENDO
1080 Snowboarding
Animal Forest
Custom Robo
Custom Robo V2
Doshin The Giant
Doshin The Giant Expansion Kits (there were 2 of them)
Dr. Mario 64
Excitebike 64
F-Zero X
F-Zero X Expansion Kit
Hey, You Pikachu! (let's pretend this one doesn't exist...)
Kirby 64 The Crystal Shards
The Legend Of Zelda Ocarina Of Time
The Legend Of Zelda Majora's Mask
Mario Artist (there were 4 of them)
Mario Golf
Mario Kart 64
Mario Party
Mario Party 2
Mario Party 3

Mario Tennis
Mischief Makers
Paper Mario
Pilotwings 64
Pokemon Puzzle League
Pokemon Snap
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2

Sin & Punishment
Star Fox 64
Super Mario 64
Super Smash Bros.
Wave Race 64
Yoshi's Story
Shigesato Itoi's No. 1 Bass Fishing
If you're going to do a comparison of great games developed by the two that helped the N64's sales then your point might be better made by avoiding the following:

Games not released outside of a single territory
Games that are not N64 titles at all but only available on an obscure Japanese only add on.
Games considered to be substandard/average/not relevent in any way to the consoles success.
Games NOT DEVELOPED BY NINTENDO (this was the most perplexing of all!!)
Obscure fishing games (see most of the above)!

Of course Nintendo developed more games for IT'S OWN CONSOLE than a third party did. That doesn't change the fact that (from a Western perspective at least, which to be fair I should have qualified) Rare's catalogue gave non-Nintendo fans a reason to be interested in the N64. They wern't just an important third party at times it felt like they were the only third party.
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Old 9th June 2010   #26
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If you're going to do a comparison of great games developed by the two that helped the N64's sales then your point might be better made by avoiding the following:

Games not released outside of a single territory
Games that are not N64 titles at all but only available on an obscure Japanese only add on.
Games considered to be substandard/average/not relevent in any way to the consoles success.
Games NOT DEVELOPED BY NINTENDO (this was the most perplexing of all!!)
Obscure fishing games (see most of the above)!

Of course Nintendo developed more games for IT'S OWN CONSOLE than a third party did. That doesn't change the fact that (from a Western perspective at least, which to be fair I should have qualified) Rare's catalogue gave non-Nintendo fans a reason to be interested in the N64. They wern't just an important third party at times it felt like they were the only third party.
nice! hahaha.

by the way, nice thread jacking here.
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Old 9th June 2010   #27
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nice! hahaha.

by the way, nice thread jacking here.
I know I feel bad for WP CEO but this is a pretty interesting discussion which is more than we've had in the N64 threads in a while.
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Old 9th June 2010   #28
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Default Well...

This is certainly thorough. I hope you enjoyed making it. I'm not even sure if my comment is relevant anymore... but good job.
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Old 9th June 2010   #29
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Games considered to be substandard/average/not relevent in any way to the consoles success.
I doubt that all Pokémon-, all Mario Party-, Yoshi-, and Kirby-games aren't relevant in any way to the consoles success.
It's the opposite. They were very relevant. Especially the 5 Pokémon games on the N64 which marked their first appearance on home consoles. But all the other blue marked games were million sellers too and good games, even if not everyone is fond of them.

If you list so many differences, and don't want to show up 2nd-party-games you should also mark the following games:

Excitebike 64, developed by Left Field Productions (if you add this you should also add Left Field's exclusive Nintendo-published NBA Courtside and NBA Courtside 2) If you want, add them with a pink licensed.
Mario Golf, developed by Camelot
Mario Tennis, developed by Camelot
Pilotwings 64, developed by Paradigm Entertainment (if you add this you should also add Paradigm's exclusive Nintendo-published F1 World Grand Prix and F1 World Grand Prix II)
But I think they all deserve to be on NINTENDO's list.

And some more: Sin & Punishment is copyright Nintendo too. Treasure was just the developer, but the game is Nintendo! OK it was JP only. But why should that matter as we're talking VC! On that matter all the green marked (and even red marked games) are worth to be included plus the orange marked game and don't forget Tetrisphere, The New Tetris, Sim City 64 and Doubutso Bancho.

So the only game in Refa's list that doesn't fall into the Nintendo category is Mischief Makers which was supervised by Enix. Nintendo was just the publisher, like with many other games that don't fall under the Nintendo radar even if they were published by Nintendo like Bomberman 64 (Hudson), NBA Hangtime (Midway), Glover (Hasbro) etc.

Ridge Racer 64 is a special case, developed by Nintendo Software Technology but originally created by Namco. So it's technically a remake and can be called a Nintendo game because it was ported by one of Nintendo's 1st parties.

Also Refa, you forgot to add Mickey's Speedway USA to the list of Rare's N64 games.

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Old 9th June 2010   #30
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Games not released outside of a single territory
Games that are not N64 titles at all but only available on an obscure Japanese only add on.
Games considered to be substandard/average/not relevent in any way to the consoles success.
Games NOT DEVELOPED BY NINTENDO (this was the most perplexing of all!!)
Obscure fishing games (see most of the above)!
What? Why would the quality of a game be impugned by where it was released? Anyways, I don't have an lot of time to post, so I just made a list from Wiki and released it without filtering it. And Rare was not a third party developer, it was a second party developer. I thought Sin & Punishment and Mischief Makers were second party games too, my mistake on that. And I just put that fishing game because it was the only other game that the guy who made the Mother series made.

SKTTR- Sorry about the poor quality of my list . I wasn't sure which games would be considered Nintendo games, like Sim City 64 and the like.
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Old 9th June 2010   #31
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SKTTR- Sorry about the poor quality of my list . I wasn't sure which games would be considered Nintendo games, like Sim City 64 and the like.
SKTTR was actually defending you.
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Old 9th June 2010   #32
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SKTTR was actually defending you.
Er, yeah, I know. I'm actually sorry that I didn't spend time with my list. I'm not being sarcastic, you know.
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Old 9th June 2010   #33
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What? Why would the quality of a game be impugned by where it was released?
It wouldn't, it would impugn its potential worldwide sales. It would certainly impugn the desire of a Western N64 buyer to consider buying an N64 to play it...which I assumed is what we were talking about here, no?


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Anyways, I don't have an lot of time to post
Okay, go and confirm your gender in the other thread before Trapster has a fit

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKTTR View Post
I doubt that all Pokémon-, all Mario Party-, Yoshi-, and Kirby-games aren't relevant in any way to the consoles success.
You do know what / means don't you? If so apply it in context to the sentence:

substandard/average/not relevent in any way to the console's success

Applying your logic however, the only one of those games that even registers in the top 10 of the N64's sales figures is Pokemon Stadium at 3.3 Million which, while impressive is nowhere near the 11 Million or 8 Million that system sellers like SM64 or Goldeneye achieved.

Pokemon was a system seller for Gameboy not N64 where it just benefitted from the installed userbase of the brand (something like 20 Million worldwide, most of whom clearly didn't care that much about buying an N64 when only 1 in 5 of its rabid fanbase bought stadium.


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Old 9th June 2010   #34
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It wouldn't, it would impugn its potential worldwide sales. It would certainly impugn the desire of a Western N64 buyer to consider buying an N64 to play it...which I assumed is what we were talking about here, no?
No, actually all I said was that Nintendo made the best N64 games. So yes, even if it was Japan only, and even if Westerners didn't play it, does not impugn the quality of the game. Where did you get that idea?

Anyways, just because people subjectively think that the quality of those games are lower, doesn't change the fact that they are Nintendo developed games. I'm not trying to hide the facts that Nintendo developed some bad games for the N64 too. After all, it was a list of Nintendo's N64 games; nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 9th June 2010   #35
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After all, it was a list of Nintendo's N64 games; nothing more, nothing less.
Except for the one's that wern't
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Old 9th June 2010   #36
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Except for the one's that wern't
lol, true that. Although according to SKKTR, they were all correct except Mischief Makers.
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Old 9th June 2010   #37
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lol, true that. Although according to SKKTR, they were all correct except Mischief Makers.
"Correct" in SKTTRs weird logic. Just because Nintendo published them doesn't make them Nintendo developed games and as he pointed out there were actually many other games developed on Nintendo's behalf by third parties such as Camelot that I neglected to highlight.

It's like with all those games that have Miyamoto or Yamauchi listed as the "executive director". Does anyone think he really does anything other than walk in the the room, nod and leave.

Rare, at least, developed all of the games associated with it.

As for the 64DD games...they didn't even succesfully sell the 64DD let alone the N64!
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Old 9th June 2010   #38
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"Correct" in SKTTRs weird logic. Just because Nintendo published them doesn't make them Nintendo developed games and as he pointed out there were actually many other games developed on Nintendo's behalf by third parties such as Camelot that I neglected to highlight.

It's like with all those games that have Miyamoto or Yamauchi listed as the "executive director". Does anyone think he really does anything other than walk in the the room, nod and leave.

Rare, at least, developed all of the games associated with it.

As for the 64DD games...they didn't even succesfully sell the 64DD let alone the N64!
Rare doesn't publish any other games except their own though.

Well, yeah, the 64DD was crap, just like the Famicom Disk System. It broke a lot, and used an obselete form of media. Why Nintendo thought adding floppy discs to the N64 was a GOOD idea I'll never know.
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Old 9th June 2010   #39
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Rare doesn't publish any other games except their own though.

Well, yeah, the 64DD was crap, just like the Famicom Disk System. It broke a lot, and used an obselete form of media. Why Nintendo thought adding floppy discs to the N64 was a GOOD idea I'll never know.
I think they were more than just floppy disks. The version of Mother 3 that was being touted at the time seemed to utilise them in quite a unique way as I recall. While the implements suggested with Creator were basicaly everthing people are now actually doing with mods.
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Old 9th June 2010   #40
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I think they were more than just floppy disks. The version of Mother 3 that was being touted at the time seemed to utilise them in quite a unique way as I recall. While the implements suggested with Creator were basicaly everthing people are now actually doing with mods.
There was a reason that Mother 64 was cancelled and not even ported to the N64 like most cancelled 64DD games.

On a sidenote, I think it's pretty awesome that Nintendo brought back Ura Zelda for the 64DD in the form of Master Quest.

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All about the Nintendo Wii's Virtual Console, including all retro Wii Virtual Console games, their release dates, coming soon predictions and relevant tips, hints and discussion.
The most common topics of discussion are general Nintendo retro gaming, Wii Virtual Console games including release dates, Wiiware, Nintendo Wii Software and normal Nintendo Wii games.
We also focus on the latest Wii Virtual Console news and reviews.

The Virtual Console Forums are hosted and administrated by Jordan Hall and moderated by the excellent Virtual Console Forums moderation team.

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