Seiken Densestu 3 on the VC?

[Weebz]

I didn't want to get banned for doing a "thread necro" so I'll just post a new one... Back in 2007 a user named BrettCelinski posted a thread talking about wishing for Seiken Densetsu 3 (the japan-only sequel to Secret of Mana) to be ported to the Virtual Console. If the user is still here and is still serious about this, the only thing I can tell you is to get as many people as you possibly can to send emails to both Nintendo and Square-Enix explaining just how badly people wish for this game to get a VC port... of course there is always the shadier route which I shan't go into details about as a forum like this likely has rules against discussing such topics. (Step 1: find an SNES controller to USB adapter. Step 2: Attach Svideo cable from your Graphics card to a TV. Step 3: Find the translated ROM and ZSNES and fullscreen it on your TV.)

[Kurachi]

nooooo, i thought someone made this thread cuz they saw some info about it

oh well, we can hope it'll come, and hope they wont quit VC after release of the newer nintendo console....

[LinkFanatic]

I do believe we have a ways to go before worrying about a newer Ninty machine...I hope anyway!

[RetroNL]

I think Nintendo will come with some transfer system on the new console, I just cant imagine why not. What I wouldnt worry about is a VC quit in the future, because this is a gateway to more e-commerce succes for a console. What I do believe is that there will come a new Nintendo internet database with new 'VC ads/extra's' for games which you will have to buy seperately.

[Spectro]

I could easily do what your saying, but I'd rather have a legitimate release from Nintendo. I don't like piracy. I refuse to even to play a Mother 3 rom w/ the translation patch without importing the cartridge first.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Spectro

I could easily do what your saying, but I'd rather have a legitimate release from Nintendo. I don't like piracy. I refuse to even to play a Mother 3 rom w/ the translation patch without importing the cartridge first.

Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

[Weebz]

Originally Posted by Spectro

I could easily do what your saying, but I'd rather have a legitimate release from Nintendo. I don't like piracy. I refuse to even to play a Mother 3 rom w/ the translation patch without importing the cartridge first.

"Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet." - Taken from Nintendo's "Legal and Copyright" section.

From what I got outta their statement, they really don't give a damn if you have the original cart or not, or if you delete within 24hrs of downloading, you're still a criminal and so are all those wonderful people who worked on your translation of Mother 3, or those folks who were working on making a total redo of Chrono Trigger in 3D. - http://www.opcoder.com/projects/chrono/

I doubt a VC port of Sd3 through legit channels will happen anytime soon, and I'm content to play it my way, but don't stop trying. There's plenty of ways you can get the message across to them, just that it's their choice whether or not to listen... Btw, didn't someone in the other thread about this say that Koichi Ishii would allow it if enough fans wanted it to happen? Where's the interview where that was taken from? Link plz.

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Weebz

and so are all those wonderful people who worked on your translation of Mother 3, or those folks who were working on making a total redo of Chrono Trigger in 3D. - http://www.opcoder.com/projects/chrono/

Well yeah, it'd hurt sales of Chrono Trigger DS. Be a little reasonable here. Nintendo obviously doesn't care about the Mother 3 fan translation, as they haven't made any plans to release the game abroad (or at least haven't announced them).

[Weebz]

That 3D Chrono Trigger fan project (which if you'd watched any of the trailers for it, you would've wanted it to be finished too) met its death via Square's cease and desist way way back in 2004 though... when did Chrono Trigger DS come out? I'm surprised they haven't issued a cease and desist for the german fan project Return to Mana, but that's probably because it's only a Half Life2 mod.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

If I were the owner of a big body of successful artistic works, I probably wouldn't want people ****ing around with them either, using my characters and carefully crafted worlds and ideas in their own projects.

Don't get me wrong man, I'm not coming down on you for wanting to play awesome stuff we have access to. I want to play an English version of Seiken Densetsu 3 as well. I want to play Mother and Mother 3 in English. (Not too chuffed about a 3D Chrono Trigger, though...) Regardless of all that, the law's the law. It's not in place to **** us over, but to protect the original property owners. The idea that we as consumers have a "right" to certain games is selfish and just plain wrong.

[Weebz]

I just don't see why they need to go all Lars Ulrich on folks though. I can understand the deal with the 3D Chrono being a "threat" I mean the screenshots, the demo video, that was near Gamecube quality stuff and OF COURSE someone would rather play that than a re-hashed DS version of the SNES game.

But as for the fan-translations, if they really wanted to pull people -away- from emulation and towards the Virtual Console, then why aren't they putting this kind of stuff on it? I mean hell, they added Pulseman for the Genesis and that was a Japan Only game. And then there was Sin and Punishment which ended up getting a new game made because its VC port was so popular. If it ever got added, Seiken Densetsu 3 would probably be the most downloaded game in their collection even if they charged some ridiculous amount of Wii points for it.

And why stop at SD3? Give us Terranigma since that only got a UK release, and the Super Famicom version of Tales of Phantasia to make up for the fact the GBA port sucked so bad (no "Yume wa Owaranai" by Yoshida Yukari and awful english VA's). The VC could've been their chance to cash in on nostalgia and give us a legit way to play the rare gems, but why would they waste the effort when there's new games to push? The VC gamelist in Japan has 559 titles, U.S. only has 355. And even the Japan VC doesn't have these games on it, which is sad... And then there's the games that got U.S. release during the NES's lifetime but still aren't on the VC (like Capcom's Duck Tales, Chip n' Dale: Rescue Rangers, Little Nemo: The Dream Master).

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Weebz

That 3D Chrono Trigger fan project (which if you'd watched any of the trailers for it, you would've wanted it to be finished too) met its death via Square's cease and desist way way back in 2004 though... when did Chrono Trigger DS come out? I'm surprised they haven't issued a cease and desist for the german fan project Return to Mana, but that's probably because it's only a Half Life2 mod.

No, I don't really care about a 3D Chrono Trigger. It would probably ruin what made Chrono Trigger so great in the first place, which was that it was an excercise in restraint, uncommon for RPGs.

Originally Posted by Weebz

I just don't see why they need to go all Lars Ulrich on folks though. I can understand the deal with the 3D Chrono being a "threat" I mean the screenshots, the demo video, that was near Gamecube quality stuff and OF COURSE someone would rather play that than a re-hashed DS version of the SNES game.

But as for the fan-translations, if they really wanted to pull people -away- from emulation and towards the Virtual Console, then why aren't they putting this kind of stuff on it? I mean hell, they added Pulseman for the Genesis and that was a Japan Only game. And then there was Sin and Punishment which ended up getting a new game made because its VC port was so popular. If it ever got added, Seiken Densetsu 3 would probably be the most downloaded game in their collection even if they charged some ridiculous amount of Wii points for it.

And why stop at SD3? Give us Terranigma since that only got a UK release, and the Super Famicom version of Tales of Phantasia to make up for the fact the GBA port sucked so bad (no "Yume wa Owaranai" by Yoshida Yukari and awful english VA's). The VC could've been their chance to cash in on nostalgia and give us a legit way to play the rare gems, but why would they waste the effort when there's new games to push? The VC gamelist in Japan has 559 titles, U.S. only has 355. And even the Japan VC doesn't have these games on it, which is sad... And then there's the games that got U.S. release during the NES's lifetime but still aren't on the VC (like Capcom's Duck Tales, Chip n' Dale: Rescue Rangers, Little Nemo: The Dream Master).

I don't think the 3D Chrono Trigger would affect sales of the DS game, priimarily because the DS game sold horribly (which hurts the chances of seeing a Chrono sequel ).

Pulseman was a 2D platformer with barely any writing. S&P was mostly all in English to begin with. Those would be easy. Charging $9 for a localization (and the hacking of) of some obscure SNES RPG would not be profitable, in fact, Square would probably lose money on it. And if they charged a ridiculous amount of money for it, then it'd be even less profitable.

Japanese only JRPGs are the most ridiculous thing to expect from VC besides licensed games, because noone would bother wasting the time, money, and effort. It's nice to want things, but expecting them is a little much. And you know those last games you mentioned are licensed, right?

[Weebz]

I just dislike the whole RIAA-ish attitude. Why don't they go the extra 9 yards and sue the people selling their old original hardware and carts? I mean... they're not getting a dime from the people selling that stuff, and one more person playing Chrono Trigger on original hardware is one less person that's going to pay for it on the DS or buy Wii Points to play it on the VC. And of course I know those games are licensed, they're all Disney titles except for Little Nemo. But if they can pay to Ultra and Kevin Eastman to get the NES Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game on the VC, why not those other games too? And how would a port of SD3 on the VC "hurt" Square anymore than people playing Niel Corlett's fan translation of it? Atleast they'd be getting something from it, maybe not as much as they're getting for whatever new 3D Final Fantasy game they last made, but people would be paying something for it on the VC and they could play it legally without fear of a lawsuit.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Weebz

I just dislike the whole RIAA-ish attitude. Why don't they go the extra 9 yards and sue the people selling their old original hardware and carts?

Because selling that stuff isn't illegal?

Originally Posted by Weebz

But if they can pay to Ultra and Kevin Eastman to get the NES Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game on the VC, why not those other games too?

Probably because Nintendo is now aware of how much money that little experiment made them. Not saying we won't see anymore licensed games, but if they have a choice between releasing a cheaper, easier game and shelling out for a license, I know what they're going to choose.

Originally Posted by Weebz

And how would a port of SD3 on the VC "hurt" Square anymore than people playing a Niel Corlett's fan translation of it? Atleast they'd be getting -something- from it, maybe not as much as they're getting for whatever new 3D Final Fantasy game they last made, but people would be paying -something- for it on the VC, right?

I think Refa's point is that whatever they earn from the relatively small sales that an obscure import JRPG would get (yes, that's a niche market on the VC) after splitting it with Square Enix and paying their translators (paying them way more than any other VC translator to date) wouldn't make it worth their effort and money. At least when people illegally steal their IP, it's just "ghost" losses and ethics rather than actual squandered capital.

[Betagam7]

Underground "fan translations" of great works of literature have been going around for centuries usually due to someone somewhere feeling the material in question isn't suitable for those in question and those in question simply being lovers of great art who, while they would be more than prepared to pay for it, will do whatever else they can to get hold of it simply because they believe that art should be available for everyone. I doubt we'll ever see it shut down or prevented because people will always try and indulge their passions.

I'm sure Mother 3 isn't up there with Zamyatin but I don't blame anyone who loves videogames for wanting to translate it just as I don't blame lovers of the written word for their efforts in bringing art to audiances it might otherwise never reach if it were left up to the official channels.

I agree that nobody has a divine right to it just because they are a gamer but I find it hard to be critical of those who make an effort to deliver it to that audiance with no official release ever seemingly pending, despite the behaviour being illegal...but I feel this discussion has been had before on here, no?

Back on topic then, how playable is SD3 in its original form as I might like to pick it up while I'm over here.

[enigmaopoeia]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Back on topic then, how playable is SD3 in its original form as I might like to pick it up while I'm over here.

The gameplay is pretty easy to understand. Especially if you had played similar titles like Secret of Mana or Secret of Evermore. Everything can easily be figured out through trial and error.

The storyline will be lost on you obviously, but not terribly necessary to understand the game. However figuring out the next location to head toward may be a bit confusing if you cannot read the location's name. Items, Skills, and Spells are shown visually, so it is easy to tell what does what by looking at them. Such as curative items are candies and honeys; an icon of a lightning bolt is a lightning spell; and equipments such as helmets and armors. But like with gameplay, you will figure out what does what by simple trial and error. There are also walkthroughs written for this game on GameFAQs to help you out.

The only thing that I can see giving you major problems would be figuring out which items you would need to unlock the third class. But aside from the Japanese text, I feel this game is Gaijin-friendly.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Back on topic then, how playable is SD3 in its original form as I might like to pick it up while I'm over here.

Quite playable. As enig says, the story will be incomprehensible, and that will vastly detract from the overall enjoyment of the game, but in terms of playability it'll only hinder your ability to figure out where to go / what to do next.

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Underground "fan translations" of great works of literature have been going around for centuries usually due to someone somewhere feeling the material in question isn't suitable for those in question and those in question simply being lovers of great art who, while they would be more than prepared to pay for it, will do whatever else they can to get hold of it simply because they believe that art should be available for everyone. I doubt we'll ever see it shut down or prevented because people will always try and indulge their passions.

I'm sure Mother 3 isn't up there with Zamyatin but I don't blame anyone who loves videogames for wanting to translate it just as I don't blame lovers of the written word for their efforts in bringing art to audiances it might otherwise never reach if it were left up to the official channels.

I agree that nobody has a divine right to it just because they are a gamer but I find it hard to be critical of those who make an effort to deliver it to that audiance with no official release ever seemingly pending, despite the behaviour being illegal...but I feel this discussion has been had before on here, no?

Back on topic then, how playable is SD3 in its original form as I might like to pick it up while I'm over here.

Noone's complaining about the Mother 3 fan translation though (or at least I wasn't). I was talking about the Chrono 3D remake and why Square porting Seiken Densetsu 3 wouldn't net them enough cash. I don't think anyone spoke negatively about the fan translation.

[Weebz]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Back on topic then, how playable is SD3 in its original form as I might like to pick it up while I'm over here.

The first time I played SD3 (before finding Neil's patch) I did "alright..." the semi-forced battle aspect felt a tad weird, I was more used to running around at normal pace hitting enemies so fighting felt a little slow to me (like someone had cast Gnome's Speed Down but permanent). The "charge" meter is different, instead of holding down attack and waiting for your counter to go up it just accumulates naturally as you fight. The weapons switching system is gone in place of a more typical RPG weapon upgrading system (this weapon type can only be used by this character), instead of weapons being traded between partners like in SoM1. The magic system is also changed, spells no longer level up and get "bigger." Those things made me slightly miffed.

But should you succumb to the dark side and play the patched version the game is so much more enjoyable, which makes up for those omissions. The story is quite lengthy and so is the game itself (first you go around fighting the boss on each continent, then you go around fighting God Beasts including a ride on the back of Flammie as you fight some kinda two-headed Ice/Flame bird thing). The 6 playable characters and multiple end bosses makes for great replay value. There's also some comical banter and a scene on Bucca Island where Duran says the 'S' word (dunno if that was really in there or added for lulz, like the "I bet Arche *blanks* like a tiger" boat ride in Tales of Phantasia). It's a fun game, but it's a great one when you can read everything.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Weebz

The first time I played SD3 (before finding Neil's patch) I did "alright..." the semi-forced battle aspect felt a tad weird, I was more used to running around at normal pace hitting enemies so fighting felt a little slow to me (like someone had cast Gnome's Speed Down but permanent). The "charge" meter is different, instead of holding down attack and waiting for your counter to go up it just accumulates naturally as you fight. The weapons switching system is gone in place of a more typical RPG weapon upgrading system (this weapon type can only be used by this character), instead of weapons being traded between partners like in SoM1. The magic system is also changed, spells no longer level up and get "bigger." Those things made me slightly miffed.

But should you succumb to the dark side and play the patched version the game is so much more enjoyable, which makes up for those omissions. The story is quite lengthy and so is the game itself (first you go around fighting the boss on each continent, then you go around fighting God Beasts including a ride on the back of Flammie as you fight some kinda two-headed Ice/Flame bird thing). The 6 playable characters and multiple end bosses makes for great replay value. There's also some comical banter and a scene on Bucca Island where Duran says the 'S' word (dunno if that was really in there or added for lulz, like the "I bet Arche *blanks* like a tiger" boat ride in Tales of Phantasia). It's a fun game, but it's a great one when you can read everything.

It probably is a literal translation since the Japanese have a more relaxed attitude to that than those who might produce official translations in the west.

[enigmaopoeia]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

It probably is a literal translation since the Japanese have a more relaxed attitude to that than those who might produce official translations in the west.

When it comes to profanity in Japanese, it's more contextual than anything. Basically, a translator would have to go out of their way to put vulgar language IN the dialogue.

With Duran's line in Seiken Densetsu 3, in the fan translation by Lina`chan, Nuku-nuku, and SoM2Freak, he says, "****, this must be Bucca! The volcano island... sounds like it'll erupt any minute!" He says in Japanese, 「！！火山島ブッカ！ あの様子じゃ、噴火が近そうだぞ。 何とか早くこの島から脱出しなきゃ！」 which translates to: "!! This must be Bucca, the volcanic island! Looks like it'll might erupt at any minute. We gotta get outta this island quickly!" As you can see, Duran never says the s-word.

As for the infamous line in Tales of Phantasia. It was originally a line that was exaggerated by DeJap, who was responsible for the fan translation, as best stated here:

"The conversation between Klarth/Claus and Cless does not mention sex at all or even allude to sex, it's just talking about which one they like better. Klarth doesn't mention Arche "***** like a tiger". He does mention her being fiery or energetic; it would be possible to interpret that sexually but it's not necessarily the case." [SOURCE]

[Kurachi]

well, we'll see whether they will or wont, but if they do, i'll buy it no doubt

aslo, i have seen something like: "they wont put ported/remade games on VC" and look at KSS, its here (not in EU yet, but comes this way)

so i dont believe the "wont happen" posts anymore, unless nintendo says it with an "OFFICIAL" announcement, so no bullcrap from fansites

(this also is a fansite/fanforum)

hope you understand what i mean, as i'm tired right now

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Kurachi

aslo, i have seen something like: "they wont put ported/remade games on VC" and look at KSS, its here (not in EU yet, but comes this way)

That has NOTHING to do with Seiken Densetsu 3. No need to spout random nonsense.

[Weebz]

Originally Posted by Kurachi

Well, we'll see whether they will or won't, but if they do, I'll buy it no doubt. Also, I have seen something like: "They won't put ported/remade games on VC" and look at Kirby Super Star, it's here (not in Europe yet, but comes this way). So I don't believe the "won't happen" posts anymore, unless Nintendo says it with an "OFFICIAL" announcement, so no bullcrap from fansites.

I don't think it's "impossible," I just think that if fans of SD3 are serious about it, there needs to be some campaigning on our end. Y'know, like... start up a fan petition and put the emails for Nintendo and Square-Enix at the top telling folks "Hey, if you're as serious as I am about this, then tell THEM. Don't just sign and forget, actually make them hear you." There's the "common sense" point some others have made which is "They don't care about pleasing an obscure niche fandom built around an old 2D JRPG." But I think there are more people out there that are aware of Seiken Densetsu 3 than thought. Neil's fan translation has been around since 2000 and many people have had contact with it and recognize SD3 as being the -true- sequel to Secret of Mana and being the highlight of the Mana series before its gradual degradation into just being a name to attach to sh*t to make it sell (ironic, as they did that with the first Seiken Densetsu; Final Fantasy Mystic Quest on GB).

I think what they need to hear from fans emailing them is this:

"We want to play this game, but we currently only have two choices. 1: Download it and risk legal trouble. 2: Buy old hardware and import the cartridge and play it in Japanese, which you still don't get a dime from. You made a huge mistake in not making SD3 available to us but you have the chance to fix it. Do not underestimate the fanbase built around this game. It isn't just some tiny niche of people. Look at the fansites, look at the Youtube videos. Look at how happy this game makes people, so happy that they would risk incurring your wrath just to play it. But even people who emulated the game would gladly go out and buy a Wii and purchase the points if it got a VC port... Hell, we'd still want it even if it got a DS port instead. It's the sequel to Secret of Mana for f***'s sake, not Chrono Trigger which we already had in the U.S. 3 times now."

[Kurachi]

Originally Posted by Refa

That has NOTHING to do with Seiken Densetsu 3. No need to spout random nonsense.

do i still have to explain that it was an example of that whats not been told by nintendo, that it isnt sure

in other words, believing stuff nintendo hasnt being talking about yet, is stupid to do
or fun, cuz you think it wont come and it still shows up (like KSS)

i thought most here would understand that that part of that post was a mere example (wow 3 times "that" in 1 line o_O )

and weebz, does that really work?
you're pretty serious about this, it seems...
i think that if it would work, that alot of people would do this

but as there's no answer of nintendo... AND SE, we cant say whether they do it or not

and that example was to show people NOT to listen to fansites, cuz it went the other way

[Weebz]

Sorry, it's my OCD that compels me to convert your text.

Originally Posted by Kurachi

Do I still have to explain that what I said was an example of that what's not been told by Nintendo? In other words, believing stuff Nintendo hasn't being talking about yet, is stupid to do and not very fun, cuz you think it won't come and it still shows up anyway like Kirby Super Star. I thought most here would understand that what was said in that post was merely an example. And that example was to show people NOT to listen to fansites, cuz it went the other way...

And to weebz, does that really work? You're pretty serious about this, it seems... I think that if it had a chance of success, alot of people would do this. But seeing as there's no answer from nintendo... OR Square-Enix, we can't say whether they'd do it or not.

Phew... now that is outta the way. Yes, I think it could work if -enough people- actually took the time to not only send emails, but physical letters to the physical residences of Nintendo of America and Square-Enix's U.S. office. Emails would likely just be brushed off, but real handwritten or typed out letters from SD3 fans would be more direct and show a greater degree of fanaticism. Like, hey... we really f**king want this.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

The danger (not just for Square Enix, but for SD3 fans) is that if Square Enix and Nintendo do go ahead and hire and translator to localize a relatively text-heavy game and sell it for, say, the very generous price of 1200 Wii Points or something along those lines, and then the game undersells, then their point is proven and they have a fully evidence-backed example of why they should never work hard on a niche localization that's not a full retail remake ever again.

I'm not calling the SD3 fanbase or the Mana series fanbase tiny and niche. But this isn't for the SD3 fanbase. It's for the members of the SD3 fanbase who own a Wii. It's for the members of the SD3 fanbase who own a Wii and have it online. It's for the members of the SD3 fanbase who own a Wii and have it online and use it to buy/download VC games. It's for the members of that small group who are willing to pay an inflated price for a game due to extra import/translation fees. And it's for the even smaller number of those people who would be happy to do so even having played the game multiple times before, already-translated, and have the ability to continue doing so (illegally) on their computers without paying a red cent.

I know a lot of those people are going to be willing to pay again just to make a statement to Nintendo and Square Enix, but I know a lot of fanslation "people" and I know a lot of them who will be pragmatic enough to just keep playing the free translation of the game they already have rather than part with money for another one.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Again, like I said, I'm not saying I don't want it released. I'm one of that small group of people that would pay to play it because I haven't already stolen it.

But at some point one wonders whether it wouldn't be more worth the company's effort just to crank out a Chrono Trigger style DS remake and make a lot more money on it selling it to a lot more people.

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Weebz

I don't think it's "impossible," I just think that if fans of SD3 are serious about it, there needs to be some campaigning on our end. Y'know, like... start up a fan petition and put the emails for Nintendo and Square-Enix at the top telling folks "Hey, if you're as serious as I am about this, then tell THEM. Don't just sign and forget, actually make them hear you." There's the "common sense" point some others have made which is "They don't care about pleasing an obscure niche fandom built around an old 2D JRPG." But I think there are more people out there that are aware of Seiken Densetsu 3 than thought. Neil's fan translation has been around since 2000 and many people have had contact with it and recognize SD3 as being the -true- sequel to Secret of Mana and being the highlight of the Mana series before its gradual degradation into just being a name to attach to sh*t to make it sell (ironic, as they did that with the first Seiken Densetsu; Final Fantasy Mystic Quest on GB).

I think what they need to hear from fans emailing them is this:

"We want to play this game, but we currently only have two choices. 1: Download it and risk legal trouble. 2: Buy old hardware and import the cartridge and play it in Japanese, which you still don't get a dime from. You made a huge mistake in not making SD3 available to us but you have the chance to fix it. Do not underestimate the fanbase built around this game. It isn't just some tiny niche of people. Look at the fansites, look at the Youtube videos. Look at how happy this game makes people, so happy that they would risk incurring your wrath just to play it. But even people who emulated the game would gladly go out and buy a Wii and purchase the points if it got a VC port... Hell, we'd still want it even if it got a DS port instead. It's the sequel to Secret of Mana for f***'s sake, not Chrono Trigger which we already had in the U.S. 3 times now."

Look, if all of the campaigning for Earthbound on VC and Mother 3 didn't work, there's no way a letter (even a handwritten one, which is what the Mother campaigning did) will do any better.

Originally Posted by Kurachi

do i still have to explain that it was an example of that whats not been told by nintendo, that it isnt sure

in other words, believing stuff nintendo hasnt being talking about yet, is stupid to do
or fun, cuz you think it wont come and it still shows up (like KSS)

i thought most here would understand that that part of that post was a mere example (wow 3 times "that" in 1 line o_O )

and weebz, does that really work?
you're pretty serious about this, it seems...
i think that if it would work, that alot of people would do this

but as there's no answer of nintendo... AND SE, we cant say whether they do it or not

and that example was to show people NOT to listen to fansites, cuz it went the other way

I have heard from developers like Atlus about how it is NOT financially viable for companies to release obscure RPGs translated as a VC game. This is a fact, not an opinion.. And your "example" is out of context. I haven't seen any fully translated VC RPG (that wasn't previously translated) yet. Why do you think the VC version of Final Fantasy II doesn't have the brand new translation Square has made over the years?

[Kurachi]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Again, like I said, I'm not saying I don't want it released. I'm one of that small group of people that would pay to play it because I haven't already stolen it.

But at some point one wonders whether it wouldn't be more worth the company's effort just to crank out a Chrono Trigger style DS remake and make a lot more money on it selling it to a lot more people.

maybe it wont be as bad, and paying 1000 points for the game wont be a problem for real fans

and there's much more roms being used to avoid paying for them, not much change there, thats a risk which stays

Originally Posted by Refa

And your "example" is out of context. I haven't seen any fully translated VC RPG (that wasn't previously translated) yet. Why do you think the VC version of Final Fantasy II doesn't have the brand new translation Square has made over the years?

my example was just to show everyone you should never be sure of what fans/fansites say
whether you like my example or not, its the same thing i wanted to make clear

SD3 could get translated easily, as many wii owners, whether they played it on a rom or not, will buy if they think its good, or if they like the genre and/or series

next thing: before you say something nintendo COULD say, plz show me official announcements from nintendo

they could make it 1000 points to get the money, its like wiiware games (like FFIV AY) that it becomes a new game, as i never saw original copies of SD3 with other languages on original console (snes in this case)
so they can ask more and put it on the VC channel, or as wiiware for all i care, as long as it has similair controls as SNES

i hope you understand this, if not, dont reply on this, that will solve nothing

like or hate my examples, but i just use em as i try to make my point, and my english isnt that good, as some of you know....

[Refa]

I didn't say ANYTHING about Nintendo...

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Refa, stick with responding to Weebz's points. Kurachi isn't going to make any sense anyway, and we'd risk derailing the thread without him learning anything in the end.

[Weebz]

Originally Posted by Refa

Look, if all of the campaigning for Earthbound on VC and Mother 3 didn't work, there's no way a letter (even a handwritten one, which is what the Mother campaigning did) will do any better.

I have heard from developers like Atlus about how it is NOT financially viable for companies to release obscure RPGs translated as a VC game. This is a fact, not an opinion.

Alrighty then, sooo lesson learned; "Nintendo and Squeenix don't give two squirts about fans of anything that isn't Mario / Final Fantasy. And since they're never going to make it available to us through legal means anyhow they can just 'eff off about people playing the fan tra--- *hears a vehicle pull up and peers out the window between the blinds* OH SHI- BRB, BEING PARTY VAN'D.

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Weebz

Alrighty then, sooo lesson learned; "Nintendo and Squeenix don't give two squirts about fans of anything that isn't Mario / Final Fantasy. And since they're never going to make it available to us through legal means anyhow they can just 'eff off about people playing the fan tra--- *hears a vehicle pull up and peers out the window between the blinds* OH SHI- BRB, BEING PARTY VAN'D.

Has Square complained about the fan translation? I haven't heard about that. Although, from what I'm hearing, maybe a non translated version would be fine. That's more plausible a decision IMO.

[Weebz]

Originally Posted by Refa

Has Square complained about the fan translation? I haven't heard about that. Although, from what I'm hearing, maybe a non translated version would be fine. That's more plausible a decision IMO.

If some vindictive RIAA ass-kisser type had made them aware of it as it was being done, like that Crimson Echoes CT fan rom hack (some douche named Hellspawn/Alien/DarkSerge thought it'd be lulzly to snitch on the people doing the hack), they probably would've given it a C&D and then no one would've gotten to play english SD3, and the world would be a very sad place.

[Spectro]

Originally Posted by Weebz

"Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet." - Taken from Nintendo's "Legal and Copyright" section.

From what I got outta their statement, they really don't give a damn if you have the original cart or not, or if you delete within 24hrs of downloading, you're still a criminal and so are all those wonderful people who worked on your translation of Mother 3, or those folks who were working on making a total redo of Chrono Trigger in 3D. - http://www.opcoder.com/projects/chrono/

I doubt a VC port of Sd3 through legit channels will happen anytime soon, and I'm content to play it my way, but don't stop trying. There's plenty of ways you can get the message across to them, just that it's their choice whether or not to listen... Btw, didn't someone in the other thread about this say that Koichi Ishii would allow it if enough fans wanted it to happen? Where's the interview where that was taken from? Link plz.

Gawd, I hate this response, especially when I'm TRYING to support developers and abide by the law. It's complete and utter bull****.

Try this on for size, neo-nazi game publishers:

Sec. 117. Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs

* (a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.
- Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an
infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to
make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of
that computer program provided:

* (1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an
essential step in the utilization of the computer program in
conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other
manner, or

* (2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes
only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that
continued possession of the computer program should cease to be
rightful.

* (b) Lease, Sale, or Other Transfer of Additional Copy or Adaptation.
- Any exact copies prepared in accordance with the provisions of this
section may be leased, sold, or otherwise transferred, along with the
copy from which such copies were prepared, only as part of the lease,
sale, or other transfer of all rights in the program. Adaptations so
prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner.

* (c) Machine Maintenance or Repair. - Notwithstanding the provisions of
section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner or lessee of
a machine to make or authorize the making of a copy of a computer
program if such copy is made solely by virtue of the activation of a
machine that lawfully contains an authorized copy of the computer program,
for purposes only of maintenance or repair of that machine, if -

* (1) such new copy is used in no other manner and is destroyed
immediately after the maintenance or repair is completed; and

(2) with respect to any computer program or part thereof that
is not necessary for that machine to be activated, such program
or part thereof is not accessed or used other than to make such
new copy by virtue of the activation of the machine.

* (d) Definitions. - For purposes of this section -

* (1) the ''maintenance'' of a machine is the servicing of the
machine in order to make it work in accordance with its original
specifications and any changes to those specifications authorized
for that machine; and

(2) the ''repair'' of a machine is the restoring of the machine
to the state of working in accordance with its original
specifications and any changes to those specifications authorized
for that machine.

If I own something, it's mine. I'm not sharing the rom with anyone else. I already payed for your damn over-priced game.

Let's say I buy a book. One of the pages fall out and I get a friend to make a copy of the page from his same book. This is essentially the same as downloading a rom of an already owned game, but law has not caught up to technology yet. I don't give a damn if Nintendo doesn't want me to. All Nintendo, Square Enix, Activision, etc. care about nowadays is money. They don't even make the games, yet they take the credit, make most of the money, and then get all ****y when Americans want a translation of Mother 3. They would probably lose money in translating Mother 3 because of the lack of popularity of the Mother series in the US. So they declare the Mother 3 translation illegal, because they don't want to do it themselves. But you know, who cares about what fans want, anyway? Wii Sports/Play and Ubisoft shovelware is what gets the sales on the Wii.


Sorry if that rant post was of poor quality. When I get worked up, I kind of just type what I'm thinking, and I'm definitely not thinking about grammar. :P

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Going to post some context for that Spectro? Because none of it makes for particularly "liberating" loopholes for software pirates. Especially since precedent was set in US court that section 117 basically doesn't apply to electronic video games. [Atari vs. JS&A] And if you read carefully (and include the previous section 116) you'll see that you won't be getting much game playing/copying done in practical circumstances.

[Kurachi]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Refa, stick with responding to Weebz's points. Kurachi isn't going to make any sense anyway, and we'd risk derailing the thread without him learning anything in the end.

you act like i'm nobody, before you make fun of me, tell me why, just explain some more

also, i just gave an example, whats stupid about that, first explain

damm, whats wrong here?
even if i give an example i am wrong, what some here say

guess i have to post even less than i do now, i just get posts about me being stupid and dumb, wtf

i quit this now, as i just tried to say something, but people wont read all, too bad

[sponge]

kurachi i read what you said brother. it makes sense.

you and the others here arent always on the same page, i suspect it to be a little bit of a language barrier.

all your saying is that you dont care about speculation and you would rather wait for an official announcement, right?

it doesnt matter if people on a forum/fansite all agree on something, unless there is something official backing it, its still just a best guess.

we could probably all agree on that with you, right? i think maybe you just arent always clear to everyone.

but to be fair, common sense would dictate that they wont be translating this one for us. they havent translated any jrpgs like this YET. and the weak likelyhood of any real amount of monetary compensation if they DID translate it, means they probably will never 'waste their time' since they have shown to care more about business than fans. like most billion$$$ corporations.

one can always hope though. and true fans can always be proactive and fight for it! if you give up before you start, you have no chance of success.

[sponge]

Originally Posted by Spectro

Gawd, I hate this response, especially when I'm TRYING to support developers and abide by the law. It's complete and utter bull****.

Try this on for size, neo-nazi game publishers:


If I own something, it's mine. I'm not sharing the rom with anyone else. I already payed for your damn over-priced game.

Let's say I buy a book. One of the pages fall out and I get a friend to make a copy of the page from his same book. This is essentially the same as downloading a rom of an already owned game, but law has not caught up to technology yet. I don't give a damn if Nintendo doesn't want me to. All Nintendo, Square Enix, Activision, etc. care about nowadays is money. They don't even make the games, yet they take the credit, make most of the money, and then get all ****y when Americans want a translation of Mother 3. They would probably lose money in translating Mother 3 because of the lack of popularity of the Mother series in the US. So they declare the Mother 3 translation illegal, because they don't want to do it themselves. But you know, who cares about what fans want, anyway? Wii Sports/Play and Ubisoft shovelware is what gets the sales on the Wii.


Sorry if that rant post was of poor quality. When I get worked up, I kind of just type what I'm thinking, and I'm definitely not thinking about grammar. :P

your grammar was fine. your argument was weak though, sorry.

look, we ALL love these games. and on a MORAL level, most of us probably even agree with you, or at least see your point.

but there is simply no legal basis for it. the law speaks of computer software, not cartridge (or any console really) games. you have to make the backup yourself, not download one. and like jog said, precedent has been set already that shows you are wrong. you get the one copy of the license you paid for, thats it. just like the record industry has us buying the same albums every time a new format comes out..... you cant just trade in an 8 track for a cassette, or an album for a cd. or a dvd for a blue ray.... or a cartridge based game for a digital copy.....

its sad. its lame. its greedy imo. but its the truth.

do what you will in your own time. but might as well not waste time trying to legally justify it. the laws are written by the rich to keep them rich.