Your list of overrated and underrated N64 titles.

[Ausden]

Over rated:
- Zelda Majora's Mask (just couldn't get into the 3 days thing)

Under rated:
- Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
- Blast Corps
- Diddy Kong Racing (could race karts, planes, hovercraft!!!)
- Pilot Wings
- Doom 64
- Wayne Gretzky's 3d Hockey

*And putting GoldenEye as over rated? That pretty much solidified multiplayer play for generations to come. GoldenEye encompassed great graphics, game play, and story line. What else would be needed?

[hansolo350]

You guys need to stop saying Shadows of the Empire is under-rated. This is one of the only situations I would say the book was ten times more fun to read than the game was to play.

[KeeperBvK]

Originally Posted by hansolo350

You guys need to stop saying Shadows of the Empire is under-rated. This is one of the only situations I would say the book was ten times more fun to read than the game was to play.

It was the first N64 game I played and it blew me away...though when reading, I guess I'd choose different stuff than Star Wars books, actually. ^^

[hansolo350]

Originally Posted by KeeperBvK

It was the first N64 game I played and it blew me away...though when reading, I guess I'd choose different stuff than Star Wars books, actually. ^^

It blew you away at first because the first level is the only good thing in the game. As for the SotE novel, it is actually one of ten Star Wars books I'd say are worth reading and I have read all of the books. I have a picture in my profile with my bookcase of Star Wars. lol

[Ausden]

I say it was under rated because it was. It didn't get the major publicity all of the other N64 games got. Yet, it was a blast to play with loads of reply value with all of the secret items to get.

[hansolo350]

Originally Posted by Ausden

I say it was under rated because it was. It didn't get the major publicity all of the other N64 games got. Yet, it was a blast to play with loads of reply value with all of the secret items to get.

As a Star Wars fan I clearly remember this being a huge event what with it crossing over many media forms and it had many advertisements. Some of the commercials made seem like SotE was actually going to be a movie. The game specifically was actually quite populare and much talked about. It was on covers of magazines and reviewers gave it high scores. All of this led to the game becoming a Player's Choice title. Clearly the game has just been forgotten over time.

[Kreegs]

Underrated : Gex 64

[KeeperBvK]

Originally Posted by hansolo350

It blew you away at first because the first level is the only good thing in the game.

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree any more. The first level was great, but it only was the beginning of a game with variety still yet to be rivaled. I loved every single level of it and replayed it lots and lots of times. It combines various genres and "moods" set by a great atmosphere, the graphics were tremendous, the sound was technically better than anything a Nintendo fan had ever experienced before, there was lots and lots to discover and have you ever seen the hidden cheats menu? The latter ones gives you enough stuff to tinker with for hours.
I definitely had more fun playing SOTE, than say the original Jedi Knight (though the second one was pretty nice) and I'm still eagerly waiting for any game that even tries to do what SOTE did.

[hansolo350]

Originally Posted by KeeperBvK

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree any more. The first level was great, but it only was the beginning of a game with variety still yet to be rivaled. I loved every single level of it and replayed it lots and lots of times. It combines various genres and "moods" set by a great atmosphere, the graphics were tremendous, the sound was technically better than anything a Nintendo fan had ever experienced before, there was lots and lots to discover and have you ever seen the hidden cheats menu? The latter ones gives you enough stuff to tinker with for hours.
I definitely had more fun playing SOTE, than say the original Jedi Knight (though the second one was pretty nice) and I'm still eagerly waiting for any game that even tries to do what SOTE did.

My comment about the first level was more of a joke. I actually like the Skyhook and speeder bike levels as well, but I hated almost every on foot level. I do agree that the game was very technically impressive but that only goes so far. I don't think the game is over or under rated since the average score is about 75/100 which is pretty much what I would give it. I don't particulally care for the Dark Force/Jedi Knight games, except for Jedi Academy.

[KeeperBvK]

To me, reviews aren't the only criteria for whether a game is over- or underrated. Seeing how normal gamers talk about a game also plays an important role to me and I usually don't see anybody mention SOTE at all in any kinds of gamind discussions, which is way less spotlight than it desveres in my opinion, which makes it an underrated game to me.

[hansolo350]

Originally Posted by KeeperBvK

To me, reviews aren't the only criteria for whether a game is over- or underrated. Seeing how normal gamers talk about a game also plays an important role to me and I usually don't see anybody mention SOTE at all in any kinds of gamind discussions, which is way less spotlight than it desveres in my opinion, which makes it an underrated game to me.

To me that just means the game is overlooked, but there really isn't any point to fight over such a small quibble.

[SKTTR]

Overrated: All Acclaim games

Underrated: Aydin Chronicles - The First Mage

[Mr. Cheez]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

Overrated: All Acclaim games

Even South Park!?

[digiki]

Originally Posted by SKTTR

You mean, once you've beaten the last boss?

- What about all those sidequests?
- What about that hidden character?
- What about collecting all these special badges?
- What about gathering all that enemy information?
- What about collecting all those star pieces?
- What about cooking all recipes?
- What about maxing out your level?

I mean, there's so much of stuff to do in this game!!
And you all talk about no replay value?? I can't understand.

It's the same as in Paper Mario 2 and Super Paper Mario.
It has so much replay value!!
I've beaten every Paper Mario game 100%.
It took me about 80-100 hours for each game.
And I'm talking about 1 playthrough, not multiple files.

At least how can a great, innovative and fun 1000 Wii Points rpg be overrated ever??

-There aren't really sidequests in the first one, letters and the dojo, not really anything else.
-There isn't a hidden character.
-Badges can be collected, nothing to correct.
-Enemy information isn't recorded in anything so it's pretty irrelevent.
-Star Pieces are used for the sole purpose of obtaining badges, quiz hunting isn't fun though.
-Recipes are kind of fun, but not as the only thing left to do.
-Level maxing, pretty much just means Amazee Dayzee hunting the last few levels, since nothing else gives you anything other than Dry Bones.

It has good replay value, but 80 hours for completion of Paper Mario is highly unrealistic, I'd say 50 tops.

[Refa]

Overrated
1080 Snowboarding
Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Donkey Kong 64
GoldenEye007
Mario Kart 64
Mario Party
Mario Party 2
Mario Party 3
Perfect Dark
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Star Fox 64
Super Mario 64
Wave Racer 64
Wipeout 64

I have nothing against the 3D platformers here, but they're not that great to warrant incredibly high scores. 1080, Pokemon Stadiums, Wipeout 64, and Wave Racer 64 just suck. I didn't appreciate the control of the 2 FPSs, but that could just be me. Oh, Mario Party games also suck. Read below for Star Fox 64. I recently replayed Mario Kart 64, and it's not what I remember...It's definetely subpar to the SNES one, and the DS one.


Underrated
Bangai-O
Goemon's Great Adventure
Mega Man 64
Mischief Makers
Sin And Punishment

So pretty much all of the underrated games are Treasure. I say Sin And Punishment is underrated because most people dismiss it as being worse than Star Fox 64 (hence why SF64 is overrated). Noone's heard/played Bangai-O on the N64, same with Mischief Makers. Many think Mega Man 64 sucks, and Goemon's Great Adventure...is well, underrated.

The N64 is my least favorite Nintendo console.

[SKTTR]

Originally Posted by digiki

-There aren't really sidequests in the first one, letters and the dojo, not really anything else.
-There isn't a hidden character.
-Badges can be collected, nothing to correct.
-Enemy information isn't recorded in anything so it's pretty irrelevent.
-Star Pieces are used for the sole purpose of obtaining badges, quiz hunting isn't fun though.
-Recipes are kind of fun, but not as the only thing left to do.
-Level maxing, pretty much just means Amazee Dayzee hunting the last few levels, since nothing else gives you anything other than Dry Bones.

It has good replay value, but 80 hours for completion of Paper Mario is highly unrealistic, I'd say 50 tops.

Where's that coming from?

Wait there was no hidden character in the first Paper Mario?
No enemy descriptions?

Well I haven't played it since... I've beaten it 100%.... and that was 8 years ago. Wow, time rushes.

Buuuut... I have played it more than 100 hours. The in-game timer says 99:59 and won't rise any further.

The other 2 Paper Marios the same thing: 99:59 hrs.


Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II was better with 429:11 hrs.

[KeeperBvK]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cheez

Even South Park!?

That one's underrated in my opinion.
And Acclaim was an amazing company on the N64 with Forsaken (way better than on the PSX), Turok 1+2, Extreme-G (the second one blew, though) and publishing the Puzzle Bobbles in the West.

To me that just means the game is overlooked

They're not overlooked as way more people played it than people are talking about it. They're just not looking at it as being worthwhile to talk about. But anyway. This discussion's not gonna get us anywhere. ^^

[Angelic Lapras King]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cheez

Even South Park!?

That one gets boring quickly, and this coming from a die hard SP fan.

[SegaFan]

Underrated:
Donkey Kong 64. People tend to rate it lower than Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie but it's at least as good.
Mischief Makers. Not enough people played it because 2D platformers weren't popular at the time.
Ocarina of Time. I consider it to be underrated because too many people put it in their overrated lists!

Overrated:
Lylat Wars. Couldn't get into it, there are much better similar 3D shooters available.
Mario Kart 64. Good but not as good as the other games in the series.

[LinkFanatic]

Originally Posted by SegaFan

Underrated:
Donkey Kong 64. People tend to rate it lower than Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie but it's at least as good.

Here, here....i second that!

[enigmaopoeia]

Overrated:
- The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. This game puts me to sleep.

Underrated:
- Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness. Not a bad game, much better than the first N64 one.
- Goemon's Great Adventure. I loved the comedic Japanese feeling of this game.
- Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, The. Gets sadly overshadowed by Ocarina of Time.
- Mystical Ninja starring Goemon. I love the Goemon series.
- Shadowgate 64: Trials of the Four Towers. Thanks, KeeperBvK, for telling me about this!

Hidden Gems:
- Snowboard Kids. Most people didn't like the usual art style of this game.
- Snowboard Kids 2. I really loved Snowboard Kids.

[KeeperBvK]

Originally Posted by enigmaopoeia

- Shadowgate 64: Trials of the Four Towers. Thanks, KeeperBvK, for telling me about this!

Hidden Gems:
- Snowboard Kids. Most people didn't like the usual art style of this game.
- Snowboard Kids 2. I really loved Snowboard Kids.

You're very welcome. Glad you enjoy it.

And I totally forgot about the Snowboard Kids duo. They were really great and lasted me quite a while with their harsh difficulty in later stages. I definitely enjoyed them far more than Mario Kart 64.

[RetroNL]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Underrated
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask — overshadowed by its inferior predecessor

Well-rated
Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber — generally considered pretty good, not rated poorly... and it is pretty good... lost gem, I guess

Overrated
All the rest of them.

Is there something you have against the N64 or something ? Because this system had some very great games.

[Mickeymac]

Originally Posted by RetroNL

Is there something you have against the N64 or something ? Because this system had some very great games.

Dude, please don't dredge this up in yet another thread.

Anywho:

Underrated:

Chameleon Twist - Really interesting and creative platformer in my opinion

Donkey Kong 64 - I never really understood the complaints against this one outside of the usual "it's a collect-a-thon" complaint. Personally, I found exploring the exotic environment actually made collecting everything totally worth the effort, especially when you got some cool weapon or wacked out item. Sure, the different colored banannas forced some repetition, but since they generally led to different areas you couldn't access before, it made things much more interesting.

Well-Rated:

Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards - Honestly, once I took off the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia, I honestly have to say that this was a pretty boring game. Sure, combining powers was kinda cool, but since most of them were pretty much useless, it really didn't add much of anything. Most of the levels were pretty boring, and sometimes downright frustrating. They were also way too long, which was made even worse by Kirby's slow walking speed, and together made dying even once a pain. Collecting the shards added some challenge, but most of them were pretty simple to find, and while the rest were ether placed in a spot that you'd never think to look in a million years, or required a power so useless that you were handicapped throughout the entire level until you got it. All in all, I have to agree that this game is definitely not one of the better Kirby games, in fact it's probably one of the worst Kirby games ever.

Overrated:

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - it wasn't bad, but there wasn't much to do outside of the towns and dungeons, and the overworld felt more linear than in most Zelda games. It didn't take too long before I got sick of going from dungeon to dungeon and exploring the same stupid town for the zillionth time just as something to do.

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask - asside from the time mechanic killing my usual style of play, the fact that the game more or less reset itself every few hours pretty much eliminated any sense of progress. Sure, you still got to keep your key items, but you were still in the same G-ddamn town, talking the the same G-ddamn people who say and do the same G-ddamn things no matter what you say and do. Any sort of change you make in the game is instantly erased, and it makes the whole game feel pointless.

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Mickeymac

Dude, please don't dredge this up in yet another thread.

Anywho:

Underrated:

Chameleon Twist - Really interesting and creative platformer in my opinion

Donkey Kong 64 - I never really understood the complaints against this one outside of the usual "it's a collect-a-thon" complaint. Personally, I found exploring the exotic environment actually made collecting everything totally worth the effort, especially when you got some cool weapon or wacked out item. Sure, the different colored banannas forced some repetition, but since they generally led to different areas you couldn't access before, it made things much more interesting.

Well-Rated:

Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards - Honestly, once I took off the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia, I honestly have to say that this was a pretty boring game. Sure, combining powers was kinda cool, but since most of them were pretty much useless, it really didn't add much of anything. Most of the levels were pretty boring, and sometimes downright frustrating. They were also way too long, which was made even worse by Kirby's slow walking speed, and together made dying even once a pain. Collecting the shards added some challenge, but most of them were pretty simple to find, and while the rest were ether placed in a spot that you'd never think to look in a million years, or required a power so useless that you were handicapped throughout the entire level until you got it. All in all, I have to agree that this game is definitely not one of the better Kirby games, in fact it's probably one of the worst Kirby games ever.

Wasn't Donkey Kong 64 rated quite highly? Probably not by people of this forums, but in general. Look at the Metacritic score;

http://www.metacritic.com/games/plat...ey%20kong%2064

The lowest score it got was an 80%. I'd consider that quite good.

I definetely agree with you on the Kirby thing though. Although I personally hold little feelings for the Kirby series (the first was great, the GB one was fun...I need to play Canvas Curse), so maybe you should ask someone like Kurachi about it.

PS What is Chameleon Twist about?

[Tides of Chaos]

Originally Posted by Refa

(the first was great, the GB one was fun...I need to play Canvas Curse)

I thought the first game was Kirby Dream Land for Game Boy. By "first" do you mean the one on NES, Kirby's Adventure?

[SKTTR]

Originally Posted by Refa

PS What is Chameleon Twist about?

Chameleon Twist and Chameleon Twist 2 are two easy N64 3D-platformers.

- They have good controls (tongue pole vaulting and other tricks you can do with your long controllable tongue)
- They have some exploring, so gameplay time is extended by finding all secret crowns/coins.
- The music is ok and the graphics are first generation N64.
- The first game has battery save, for the second you need a Controller Pak.
- They have only 7 stages each, I think, so they're a bit on the short side.

They were fun as long as they've lasted.
I know there was one coin in CT2 I could never find.

[RetroNL]

I think the most positive well rated games are the Banjos, even after so many years it still draws many attention, I think just as much as DK 64.

[Jogurt the Yogurt]

Originally Posted by RetroNL

Is there something you have against the N64 or something ? Because this system had some very great games.

Nope, nothing against the N64 per se. But due to the magic of historical coincidence, it ended up with a big batch of games that don't appeal to me.

As a rule, my favourite genres are RPGs, strategy, side-scrolling platformers, puzzlers, and elements of those genres combined into hybrids.

Since the N64 came around at the dawn of the 3D era, it was home to a whole bunch of 3D experimentation, much of which didn't reach perfection. I don't really care for 3D platformers, which nullifies probably 75% of the N64's acclaimed games. Not a big fan of FPS games either. RPGs and strategy games were thin on the ground (i.e. close to non-existent).

So the only games that leaves are Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. As I stated above (months ago), Majora's Mask is on my list of good games. I think Ocarina suffers too much from early-3D syndrome, where the world is too big, too empty, too brown/gray/bland, the camera is bad, the graphics are choppy, etc. I like Majora's Mask because it improves on a lot of these problems and uses the time limit mechanic and the smaller world to rein in its 3D-ambitions to manageable levels.

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Nope, nothing against the N64 per se. But due to the magic of historical coincidence, it ended up with a big batch of games that don't appeal to me.

As a rule, my favourite genres are RPGs, strategy, side-scrolling platformers, puzzlers, and elements of those genres combined into hybrids.

So the only games that leaves are Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.

And the 4 or so 2D platformers on the console...Unless you didn't like those, of course.

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Tides of Chaos

I thought the first game was Kirby Dream Land for Game Boy. By "first" do you mean the one on NES, Kirby's Adventure?

Er, yeah, that would be the second one;my mistake.

[Pocketim]

Under-rated:

Yoshi Story
Mischief Makers
Kirby 64
Donkey Kong 64 (kind of)

Fairly-rated

Banjo Kazooie
Lylat Wars
Mario Kart 64
Super Mario 64 (even though I did prefer the DS version)
1080
Paper Mario
F-Zero X
Super Smash Brothers

Over-rated
Zelda: Majora's Mask
Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Pokémon Snap
Pokémon Puzzle League

All the N64 games I own. As you may know, I personally just don't enjoy 3D Zelda games. The only one I really got into was Wind Waker.

[RetroNL]

Originally Posted by Pocketim

Under-rated:

Yoshi Story
Mischief Makers
Kirby 64
Donkey Kong 64 (kind of)

Fairly-rated

Banjo Kazooie
Lylat Wars
Mario Kart 64
Super Mario 64 (even though I did prefer the DS version)
1080
Paper Mario
F-Zero X
Super Smash Brothers

Over-rated
Zelda: Majora's Mask
Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Pokémon Snap
Pokémon Puzzle League

All the N64 games I own. As you may know, I personally just don't enjoy 3D Zelda games. The only one I really got into was Wind Waker.

Weird to say it, but Im actually 95 % agreed with this list .

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

So the only games that leaves are Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. As I stated above (months ago), Majora's Mask is on my list of good games. I think Ocarina suffers too much from early-3D syndrome, where the world is too big, too empty, too brown/gray/bland, the camera is bad, the graphics are choppy, etc. I like Majora's Mask because it improves on a lot of these problems and uses the time limit mechanic and the smaller world to rein in its 3D-ambitions to manageable levels.

Out of interest, did you play them for the first time at their time of release or more recently?
Personally at the time of the release I was blown away by Ocarina's huge world and stepping out onto Hyrule field for the first time or looking down at Kakariko village from the top of Death Mountain remains some of the most awe inspiring moments I've had in all my gaming years, however I can see how if I was playing them today I might be asking where is everyone.
One of my chief complaints with Twighlight Princess was how its world seemed enourmous but was, in the end, pointlessly so.

[LinkFanatic]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Out of interest, did you play them for the first time at their time of release or more recently?
Personally at the time of the release I was blown away by Ocarina's huge world and stepping out onto Hyrule field for the first time or looking down at Kakariko village from the top of Death Mountain remains some of the most awe inspiring moments I've had in all my gaming years, however I can see how if I was playing them today I might be asking where is everyone.
One of my chief complaints with Twighlight Princess was how its world seemed enourmous but was, in the end, pointlessly so.

I have a hard time giving any insight to ANY Zelda game. No matter how bad the graphics are, or what everyone seems to have a problem with, I would probably overrate these games just on the sheer fact that it is my all time favorite series. The cd-i games are the only ones I haven't played, and I think all the others are the best games out there for whatever system they are on. I purposely overrate them due to my biased opinion. I will continue to do so with this series no matter how much better or worse it gets.

[RetroNL]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

Out of interest, did you play them for the first time at their time of release or more recently?
Personally at the time of the release I was blown away by Ocarina's huge world and stepping out onto Hyrule field for the first time or looking down at Kakariko village from the top of Death Mountain remains some of the most awe inspiring moments I've had in all my gaming years, however I can see how if I was playing them today I might be asking where is everyone.
One of my chief complaints with Twighlight Princess was how its world seemed enourmous but was, in the end, pointlessly so.

I think Yojo has played these games in a later period, still today it has become more mediocre because for instance the big empty spaces I agree, but that doesnt take away that this is a fantastic adventure with really good story and music that opened the 3d game world to a new dimension.
Though games such as Banjo Kazooie havent really aged at all (only the graphs).

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by RetroNL

I think Yojo has played these games in a later period, still today it has become more mediocre because for instance the big empty spaces I agree, but that doesnt take away that this is a fantastic adventure with really good story and music that opened the 3d game world to a new dimension.
Though games such as Banjo Kazooie havent really aged at all (only the graphs).

I was never a fan of the camera positioning in Banjo Kazooie, the game looked gorgeous but the camera was positioned so oddly you often gelt like you wern't seeing enough of the gameworld. Plus it had that annoying vertical black bar down one side of the screen.

The other thing that put me off was how over the top cutesy the game was. I'm not one of these people who like to play "mature" games with blood and gore but Banjo just didn't get its cuteseyness right for me. it was the Scrappy Doo to Mario's Scooby.

The one thing I loved about Banjo and all Rare games was how much secret stuff they left in even though they hadn't had time to implement it. The Ice Key in Banjo, the secret island in Goldeneye etc. Not to mention all the stuff you could hack out of the games with the Action Replay/gameshark cart. Game hacking was a real pleasure on this system.

[Refa]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

I was never a fan of the camera positioning in Banjo Kazooie, the game looked gorgeous but the camera was positioned so oddly you often gelt like you wern't seeing enough of the gameworld. Plus it had that annoying vertical black bar down one side of the screen.

The other thing that put me off was how over the top cutesy the game was. I'm not one of these people who like to play "mature" games with blood and gore but Banjo just didn't get its cuteseyness right for me. it was the Scrappy Doo to Mario's Scooby.

The one thing I loved about Banjo and all Rare games was how much secret stuff they left in even though they hadn't had time to implement it. The Ice Key in Banjo, the secret island in Goldeneye etc. Not to mention all the stuff you could hack out of the games with the Action Replay/gameshark cart. Game hacking was a real pleasure on this system.

Mario's cutsiness is pretty crap too...Well, I mean in the later games (where they overdid it for Mario).

[RetroNL]

Originally Posted by Betagam7

I was never a fan of the camera positioning in Banjo Kazooie, the game looked gorgeous but the camera was positioned so oddly you often gelt like you wern't seeing enough of the gameworld. Plus it had that annoying vertical black bar down one side of the screen.

The other thing that put me off was how over the top cutesy the game was. I'm not one of these people who like to play "mature" games with blood and gore but Banjo just didn't get its cuteseyness right for me. it was the Scrappy Doo to Mario's Scooby.

The one thing I loved about Banjo and all Rare games was how much secret stuff they left in even though they hadn't had time to implement it. The Ice Key in Banjo, the secret island in Goldeneye etc. Not to mention all the stuff you could hack out of the games with the Action Replay/gameshark cart. Game hacking was a real pleasure on this system.

I never noticed that bar, and I had a PAL version I also heard the same about Wave Race 64 I thought, still as I mentioned dont get it because I never noticed or saw it . . (Maybe its the type of tv you use in general). As for the game, well its everyones own opinion. If you look deeply in- game and the techniques used for a full impact and not too simplistic plot I rather play BK than Mario 64 on this day, but thats just me I think.

[Betagam7]

Originally Posted by RetroNL

I never noticed that bar, and I had a PAL version I also heard the same about Wave Race 64 I thought, still as I mentioned dont get it because I never noticed or saw it . .

The vertical bar on Banjo was only small and may well not show up on certain TV's (I get a similar vertical bar when playing my SNES in 60hz mode and it only shows up on certain TVs) but if you couldn't see the PAL borders on Waverace 64 then, frankly, you need your eyes tested! Along with Pilotwings 64, they're some of the most insultingly humungous borders PAL gamers have ever had to endure, not to mention the fact that the game was noticibly slower and choppier than the NTSC version. I believe they were made worse by the fact that the NTSC version already had borders so on the PAL version half the screen was taken up with them. I've never been able to assertain whether the VC version has had them reduced at all as I've seen so many conflicting reports and I refuse to throw my money at rubbish conversions like that in 2009.

Originally Posted by Refa

Mario's cutsiness is pretty crap too...Well, I mean in the later games (where they overdid it for Mario).

I don't know. I think the Mario series has always retained a certain charm in its cuteness compared to the multitude of games that try to ape it and get it wrong, stuff like Dewey's Adventure for Wii and practically anything by Rare.

I know that this peculiarly right style of cuteness or "the fun graphics" as she calls them are one of the reasons my gf loves to play the Mario games (and owns the plush Goomba) but isn't interested in a host of similar cutesy wii games such as Dewey or Sega's Nights. Of course if she played them she'd find other reasons to hate those last two

Having said that though she wasn't a fan of Rosalina's story and I have to admit that bit felt a little too close to some of Konami's Wii efforts like the aforementioned Dewey and Elebits/Eledees