Apple Bans Game, Days After Developer Publicly Trashes App Store [Apple]

**R.O.B.** · 19th March 2010

Apple Bans Game, Days After Developer Publicly Trashes App Store Last week, game developer Tommy Refenes publicly called Apple's app store "awful" and "horrible." This week, Apple yanked his game from their store.

There are a couple of reasons that may have compelled Apple to remove Zits & Giggles, a pimple-popping game for the iPhone and iPod Touch, from the App store:

Possibility 1: Its co-creator did spend five minutes at last week's Game Developers Conference "Indie Gamemakers Rant" to declare that he "absolutely ****ing hate[s] the iPhone app store." He likened the iPhone gaming market to that served by the low-quality Tiger handheld gaming systems of the 80s and 90s, handheld devices that played crude Mega Man and Street Fighter games.

Possibility 2: Zits & Giggles' creators also kept raising the price of their game — as an experiment — up to $400 as of last week.

But Apple hasn't offered Refenes any clues, leaving him only with theories. "They gave me no explanation at all as to why they took it down," the developer told Kotaku after trying to get an explanation from Apple all week. "I'm guessing they are mad that I said their store sucks and the iPhone is a Tiger handheld and they took it down."

Apple has not responded to Kotaku's request for comment

Apple Bans Game, Days After Developer Publicly Trashes App Store Zits & Giggles was launched in March 2009. Zits & Giggles is a simple pimple-popping game. It was co-developed by handful of game makers, including Refenes and Adam Atomic, the developer of the hit iPhone game Canablat. The group made the game as a lark, a sentiment that was clear from the summary of the game that used to appear on the App store:

Will you continue to embrace good taste and sensibility, or will you have the courage and the fortitude to go above and beyond your duties as a patriotic citizen? This cultural milestone is not only the FIRST* but the MOST ADVANCED dermatological simulator ever released on the iPhone and iPod Touch.

Few people perusing the App store had any interest in Zits & Giggles in March of 2009. According to Refenes, sales were negligible.

In his rant last week, Refenes explained that, about five months ago, he raised the price to $15. It was an experiment. On the day he raised the price, three people bought the game. He said he raised the price to $50, and four more people bought it. Refenes was inspired and convinced that people who buy games from the App store aren't good at sniffing out good games. He would keep raising the price to see how many more people would buy the game. Fourteen people bought the game at $299, he said.

On Monday, March 15, the day Zits & Giggles was removed from the App store, someone bought the game for $400, he told Kotaku.

One day after the removal, Refenes received an e-mail from an Apple official. The note, subject-lined "Your App Store submission Zits & Giggles," began with "We have been trying to reach you" along with a phone number to call but did not refer to the game's removal. After receiving the e-mail, Refenes figured out that his game had been pulled. He's been trying to get Apple to talk to him, by phone or e-mail, ever since.

Refenes, who is also part of the development team for the anticipated PC, Xbox 360 and Wii downloadable game Super Meat Boy, told Kotaku that he does not believe his game broke any App store rules.

Kotaku has sought clarification from Apple about whether the pricing experiment, which would have cost consumers far more money than Zits & Giggles is worth, violates any App store pricing rules. In 2008, Apple removed an app called I Am Rich that charged people $1000 for essentially nothing.

At the Game Developers Conference, Refenes called the App store to the "Tiger handheld game of this generation," a platform on which big brands are sold but where game quality is not the consumers' priority. The pricing experiment had confirmed this, he told his fellow game creators: "My conclusion to all of this is that the people you're selling games to on the App store, they're not necessarily gamers. There are some games that sell very well on the App store, but for the most part, when you have stuff like Street Fighter and Assassin's Creed, the are a way to sell a brand, just like the Tiger handhelds were. "

It is easy to believe that Refenes' March 10, 2010 rant, delivered a year after the game was launched and several months after the price started to climb, was the impetus for the removal of Zits & Giggles from the App store. But whether Apple made its move on March 15 due to discovering the app via the rant or to punish a trash-talking developer will remain a mystery until Apple speaks up.

Source: Kotaku

**Jogurt the Yogurt** · 19th March 2010

Sounds like buddy is trashing the developers and the consumers, not so much Apple and the medium itself. It is after all the developers who crank quick **** on there trying to make a buck, and the boneheads who download anything and everything for some reason that keeps the machine going. The iPhone and the App Store are both legitimate gaming devices/services, but they have the same kind of problem as the Wii: a few gems among mountains of poop.

Refa · 19th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Sounds like buddy is trashing the developers and the consumers, not so much Apple and the medium itself. It is after all the developers who crank quick **** on there trying to make a buck, and the boneheads who download anything and everything for some reason that keeps the machine going. The iPhone and the App Store are both legitimate gaming devices/services, but they have the same kind of problem as the Wii: a few gems among mountains of poop.

Of course, the iPhone has less gems and more poop.

**Jogurt the Yogurt** · 19th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refa

Of course, the iPhone has less gems and more poop.

Yep, it's the Wii problem without Nintendo's dictatorial control issues.

SKTTR · 20th March 2010

Percental the iPhone has a truckload more crap for download than the Wii.
Comparing these two is a slap in Nintendo's face.
Nintendo actually contributes, cares, corrects and tests software on their machine. Yeah, not perfectly and not quite as much as we want, but still.

While the Wii Shop has 75% good games and 25% bad games, the iPhone store has 10% good stuff and 90% crap! Just take a look at it. While the premise, quantity and diversity is higher on the iPhone (thanks to not only games), a deeper look into the cheap or expensive apps is leading me to conclude what is now my standpoint. Most of the iPhone's downloadable stuff is dry crap with no quality assurance and simply not worth it!

Refa · 20th March 2010

I didn't think Jogurt was talking about VC (more about retail games), seeing as VC games aren't new games. Wii Ware actually has more crap games than good games, not to say there aren't quite a few good games.

SKTTR · 20th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refa

I didn't think Jogurt was talking about VC (more about retail games), seeing as VC games aren't new games. Wii Ware actually has more crap games than good games, not to say there aren't quite a few good games.

Showing you arguments is like trying to explain 4D, the afterlife and whats between the pixels to someone, so I just say No. Not accepted.

Speak to the hand, talk to the mirror, hug a tree, pet a dog, eat a banana. No.

**Jogurt the Yogurt** · 20th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refa

I didn't think Jogurt was talking about VC (more about retail games), seeing as VC games aren't new games. Wii Ware actually has more crap games than good games, not to say there aren't quite a few good games.

Yep, SKTTR can jam his fingers into his ears all he wants, but it won't change the fact that one of the major complaints (in media, in criticism, in the industry, etc.) about the Wii's software library for the last 3 years has been the high ratio of poop to gold. There are shovelware stories everywhere you look. R.O.B.'s newsfeed seems to give us at least one per week! (Or, it did for a while there.)

Now, it may be the fact that English isn't his first language that caused SKTTR to mistakenly think I was saying the shovelware problem on iTunes is the same as it is on Wii. Basically anyone else would readily understand: what the iPhone is experiencing is the Wii's shovelware problem writ large.

SKTTR · 21st March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jogurt the Yogurt

Yep, SKTTR can jam his fingers into his ears all he wants, but it won't change the fact that one of the major complaints (in media, in criticism, in the industry, etc.) about the Wii's software library for the last 3 years has been the high ratio of poop to gold. There are shovelware stories everywhere you look. R.O.B.'s newsfeed seems to give us at least one per week! (Or, it did for a while there.)

Now, it may be the fact that English isn't his first language that caused SKTTR to mistakenly think I was saying the shovelware problem on iTunes is the same as it is on Wii. Basically anyone else would readily understand: what the iPhone is experiencing is the Wii's shovelware problem writ large.

I just see not that many bad games on WiiWare but scrolling through the iPhone AppStore there are pages clustered with useless and mostly very badly designed software - nothing more than quick cash-ins for casuals.

WiiWare is great. I could behave like most people and swim in the mainstream saying there's only Mega Man 9, 10, Castlevania, World of Goo and a few more worth it.
But I'm not ignorant and I've got no horseblinker! I'm hardcore and nerd and casual and niche, so I experience many good games, not just the ones for specific kinds of gamers.
You, as a specific kind of gamer, may see only 30% good games for you and 70% ShovelWiiWare, while I see 75% good games, games that I would give at least a score of 6/10... and 25% really bad games!

A little example for your understanding:

I don't have and don't intend to buy Mega Man 9, 10, Castlevania, Bit.Trip, NyxQuest, Super Meat Boy, Cave Story and many other good games on WiiWare but I'm not going to say I hate them.. and drop from 75% good games to 60% good games now. No, just becase I "hate" Mega Man and Castlevania doesn't make them bad games. No, I'm thinking straight.

I have 52 WiiWare games from the 149 that are out in EU. And I have a list with 50 more I want to get. There's my 66% good/appealing games (since WiiWare is a platform for everyone and not just for you) and then there's 9% good games that just aren't my thing. That's a total of 75% good games for me! Easy math. Thanks for listening. I hope it's clear enough!

And yeah, I know I'm bad in English. I give my best though.

**Jogurt the Yogurt** · 21st March 2010

Right...? And that's exactly why I said the iTunes app store suffers from the shovelware problem to a greater degree than even the Wii does.

I used the Wii as a touchstone (not WiiWare) because, regardless of what kind of games you like, regardless of how much you might enjoy what is traditionally known as shovelware, the Wii has been the modern epitome of the quick cash-in in the gaming console world.

Even if you think the Wii shouldn't be the modern epitome of the quick cash-in in the gaming console world, it is. And that doesn't mean that 100% of the retail disc games on the Wii are crap, either! And that doesn't even mean that 100% of the shovelware is crap!

I'm not ignorant, I'm not a "specific kind" of gamer, and I don't blink at horses. You don't need to get defensive about your favourite multibillion-dollar transnational corporation. They're doing OK.

SKTTR · 21st March 2010

Nevermind, I guess I Shovelware!

**Jorbet the Sorbet** · 28th March 2010

who plays games on a phone anyway!! lol

kawaiipikachu · 28th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorbet the Sorbet

who plays games on a phone anyway!! lol

Well i like to play a few good games on my iPod Touch .

The shoemaker · 29th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawaiipikachu

Well i like to play a few good games on my iPod Touch .

Clearly none of his posts have been serious. lol!

theUndead_feature · 29th March 2010

I have my Doom II RPG on my phone and that's all I need. iTouch, iPhone, iAnything is a large waste of money.

kawaiipikachu · 29th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by theUndead_feature

I have my Doom II RPG on my phone and that's all I need. iTouch, iPhone, iAnything is a large waste of money.

Well the app store may have a lot of stuff thats worst that shovelware but if you look you can find some gems like Pinball Dreams & Fantasy, Wolfenstien Pocket God ect ect ect

theUndead_feature · 30th March 2010

Not worth the price of the mobile device in the first place, mang.

19th March 2010	#1
R.O.B. VC Forums Bot Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 14,478	Apple Bans Game, Days After Developer Publicly Trashes App Store [Apple] Last week, game developer Tommy Refenes publicly called Apple's app store "awful" and "horrible." This week, Apple yanked his game from their store. There are a couple of reasons that may have compelled Apple to remove Zits & Giggles, a pimple-popping game for the iPhone and iPod Touch, from the App store: Possibility 1: Its co-creator did spend five minutes at last week's Game Developers Conference "Indie Gamemakers Rant" to declare that he "absolutely ***ing hate[s] the iPhone app store." He likened the iPhone gaming market to that served by the low-quality Tiger handheld gaming systems of the 80s and 90s, handheld devices that played crude Mega Man and Street Fighter games. Possibility 2: Zits & Giggles' creators also kept raising the price of their game — as an experiment — up to $400 as of last week. But Apple hasn't offered Refenes any clues, leaving him only with theories. "They gave me no explanation at all as to why they took it down," the developer told Kotaku after trying to get an explanation from Apple all week. "I'm guessing they are mad that I said their store sucks and the iPhone is a Tiger handheld and they took it down." Apple has not responded to Kotaku's request for comment Zits & Giggles was launched in March 2009. Zits & Giggles is a simple pimple-popping game. It was co-developed by handful of game makers, including Refenes and Adam Atomic, the developer of the hit iPhone game Canablat. The group made the game as a lark, a sentiment that was clear from the summary of the game that used to appear on the App store: Will you continue to embrace good taste and sensibility, or will you have the courage and the fortitude to go above and beyond your duties as a patriotic citizen? This cultural milestone is not only the FIRST but the MOST ADVANCED dermatological simulator ever released on the iPhone and iPod Touch. Few people perusing the App store had any interest in Zits & Giggles in March of 2009. According to Refenes, sales were negligible. In his rant last week, Refenes explained that, about five months ago, he raised the price to $15. It was an experiment. On the day he raised the price, three people bought the game. He said he raised the price to $50, and four more people bought it. Refenes was inspired and convinced that people who buy games from the App store aren't good at sniffing out good games. He would keep raising the price to see how many more people would buy the game. Fourteen people bought the game at $299, he said. On Monday, March 15, the day Zits & Giggles was removed from the App store, someone bought the game for $400, he told Kotaku. One day after the removal, Refenes received an e-mail from an Apple official. The note, subject-lined "Your App Store submission Zits & Giggles," began with "We have been trying to reach you" along with a phone number to call but did not refer to the game's removal. After receiving the e-mail, Refenes figured out that his game had been pulled. He's been trying to get Apple to talk to him, by phone or e-mail, ever since. Refenes, who is also part of the development team for the anticipated PC, Xbox 360 and Wii downloadable game Super Meat Boy, told Kotaku that he does not believe his game broke any App store rules. Kotaku has sought clarification from Apple about whether the pricing experiment, which would have cost consumers far more money than Zits & Giggles is worth, violates any App store pricing rules. In 2008, Apple removed an app called I Am Rich that charged people $1000 for essentially nothing. At the Game Developers Conference, Refenes called the App store to the "Tiger handheld game of this generation," a platform on which big brands are sold but where game quality is not the consumers' priority. The pricing experiment had confirmed this, he told his fellow game creators: "My conclusion to all of this is that the people you're selling games to on the App store, they're not necessarily gamers. There are some games that sell very well on the App store, but for the most part, when you have stuff like Street Fighter and Assassin's Creed, the are a way to sell a brand, just like the Tiger handhelds were. " It is easy to believe that Refenes' March 10, 2010 rant, delivered a year after the game was launched and several months after the price started to climb, was the impetus for the removal of Zits & Giggles from the App store. But whether Apple made its move on March 15 due to discovering the app via the rant or to punish a trash-talking developer will remain a mystery until Apple speaks up. Source: Kotaku __________________ I am R.O.B. your Robotic Operating Buddy! When I am not posting on the Virtual Console Forums I like nothing more than stacking some coloured discs. Why don't you try it sometime? Remember to invite your friends to the Virtual Console forums!

19th March 2010	#2
Jogurt the Yogurt Do you like my helmet? Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Canada Age: 31 Posts: 17,209 Blog Entries: 8	Sounds like buddy is trashing the developers and the consumers, not so much Apple and the medium itself. It is after all the developers who crank quick **** on there trying to make a buck, and the boneheads who download anything and everything for some reason that keeps the machine going. The iPhone and the App Store are both legitimate gaming devices/services, but they have the same kind of problem as the Wii: a few gems among mountains of poop. __________________

20th March 2010	#6
Refa Morton Koopa Jr Join Date: Jul 2008 Age: 19 Posts: 4,240	I didn't think Jogurt was talking about VC (more about retail games), seeing as VC games aren't new games. Wii Ware actually has more crap games than good games, not to say there aren't quite a few good games. __________________ Wii Friend Code 0176-4744-4845-6569

21st March 2010	#10
Jogurt the Yogurt Do you like my helmet? Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Canada Age: 31 Posts: 17,209 Blog Entries: 8	Right...? And that's exactly why I said the iTunes app store suffers from the shovelware problem to a greater degree than even the Wii does. I used the Wii as a touchstone (not WiiWare) because, regardless of what kind of games you like, regardless of how much you might enjoy what is traditionally known as shovelware, the Wii has been the modern epitome of the quick cash-in in the gaming console world. Even if you think the Wii shouldn't be the modern epitome of the quick cash-in in the gaming console world, it is. And that doesn't mean that 100% of the retail disc games on the Wii are crap, either! And that doesn't even mean that 100% of the shovelware is crap! I'm not ignorant, I'm not a "specific kind" of gamer, and I don't blink at horses. You don't need to get defensive about your favourite multibillion-dollar transnational corporation. They're doing OK. __________________

29th March 2010	#15
theUndead_feature Banzai Bill Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Level Ate Age: 21 Posts: 1,628	I have my Doom II RPG on my phone and that's all I need. iTouch, iPhone, iAnything is a large waste of money. __________________

20th March 2010	#5
SKTTR Ludwig von Koopa Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,251	Percental the iPhone has a truckload more crap for download than the Wii. Comparing these two is a slap in Nintendo's face. Nintendo actually contributes, cares, corrects and tests software on their machine. Yeah, not perfectly and not quite as much as we want, but still. While the Wii Shop has 75% good games and 25% bad games, the iPhone store has 10% good stuff and 90% crap! Just take a look at it. While the premise, quantity and diversity is higher on the iPhone (thanks to not only games), a deeper look into the cheap or expensive apps is leading me to conclude what is now my standpoint. Most of the iPhone's downloadable stuff is dry crap with no quality assurance and simply not worth it!

28th March 2010	#12
Jorbet the Sorbet Banned Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 57	who plays games on a phone anyway!! lol

30th March 2010	#17
theUndead_feature Banzai Bill Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Level Ate Age: 21 Posts: 1,628	Not worth the price of the mobile device in the first place, mang. __________________

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