Seiken Densetsu 3!!!- The ultimate insane dream for the VC

[BrettCelinski]

Let's bring some respect and love for this dope-ass RPG. I'd think this would be one of the most idealistic of requests for Nintendo and Square, seeing this has never reached the West, I believe.

Imagine an English translation (EDIT: I mean a new one, either by Square or maybe one of the fan translations that are already out) and imagine playing this with the gamecube controller in your hands.

Anybody have any memories of this game (well, emulator memories)? Or any other insane RPG or other requests for the VC?

[-Regii]

GameCube Controller? Forget it, I prefer playing it with the CC.

Seiken Densetsu 3 is one of the best RPGs I've ever played
(I finished it 2 times and I'm beginning the 3rd time) and is my greatest request to Nintendo/Square ever, I just hope it comes, otherwise I have to play it somewhere else *coughs* This is just a masterpiece and no RPG-fan should miss it.

I don't think they would just take a fan translation, if they release it, I believe they translate it on their own.

[antster1983]

A nice idea, but unlikely to see the light of day. :(

[-Regii]

A nice idea, but unlikely to see the light of day. :(

Very unlikely, and that's the point >_<

[iNma]

A nice idea, but unlikely to see the light of day. :(

Very unlikely, and that's the point >_<

Other people speak with their words. Regii speaks with his avatar. Respect is due.

[BrettCelinski]

Hm, this should be a set up for a neat discussion on the implications of releasing games with an established japan-only distribution. I'm no legal expert, but what do Nintendo/Square have to lose by releasing such a game to the West? Quite a lot, I guess, since it seems like such a remote prospect.

[iNma]

Hm, this should be a set up for a neat discussion on the implications of releasing games with an established japan-only distribution. I'm no legal expert, but what do Nintendo/Square have to lose by releasing such a game to the West? Quite a lot, I guess, since it seems like such a remote prospect.

I think the initial non-release of these games in Western territories had to do with their perceived niche appeal and the macroecenomics of releasing games on cartridge. The investement was simply not justified in the face of high production costs and small profit margins vis-a-vis low predicted sales (let's face it, none of them were ever going to do 8 million, cult classics or not).

As for their release on the VC, the argument is certainly well-established, but we have to return to the core point, which is that Square finds itself between a rock and a hard place. Can localisation for previously Japanese-only titles be justified versus the low purchasing costs of such games on the VC? Likely not. And what about localisation and update for release on modern systems? Such an action would likely require retooling of the game to meet the expectations of a modern audience (and thus even higher investment), and the reputation of a game like Seiken Denstesu 3 have - unlike Final Fantasy games that have built up a massive following due to the quality and popularity of newer sequels in the West - been shattered by the decidedly sub-par offerings since. Why should the 14- and 15-year olds that do not remember these games initially, understand the quality of them now in hidnsight, after being inundated by technically superior yet gameplay-wise inferior titles in the interim? I think the percentage that would resides distinctly in the minority. Ergo, if I was Square, I couldn't make a business case for SD3 on the VC, or any other format for that matter. Shame.

[BrettCelinski]

Yeah, I had that same idea regarding this game. And I don't see any feasible way to market this game on its own as well. It doesn't coincide with any major related product in the series, a set up that seems the only reasonable way to bring the game to a wider demographic.

A game this great should be marketed in a way to spare any costs spent on possibly over-advertising a game, something Square knows may take a lot of time and effort and that definitely isn't in their interests at all.

The only way I see this happening is that somehow the game is released with a new Mana Wii title, again a project that seems unlikely. It's a cult classic and not much else in the minds of Western casual gamers who even knew about it. It would take lots of marketing and press coverage to make this game profitable to all parties involved.

I myself don't see much advertising for the VC itself anywhere, though this is coming from a casual gamer, pertaining to the next-gen consoles. I only wanted the Wii because of past knowledge of Nintendo, being an owner of most of their consoles. I heard about the VC online on related gaming forums, something most Moms and Dads aren't reading, if they read blogs at all. It's doubtful that most casual Wii buyers know much about this feature anyway, and if they do, it's because of interest in past bestsellers.

Again, even though we've seen a fair share of obscure titles on the VC, I assume it's because costs are low for all the parties involved to bring those games onboard.

If this is somehow marketed with a related title and hyped massively, there may be a remote chance. But otherwise, requiescat in pace, NA/European SD3 :cry:

:P

[Veszerin]

One can only hope that SD3 is released to the virtual console.


I'd also like to play the full version of Secret of Mana.

[link64]

Hm, this should be a set up for a neat discussion on the implications of releasing games with an established japan-only distribution. I'm no legal expert, but what do Nintendo/Square have to lose by releasing such a game to the West? Quite a lot, I guess, since it seems like such a remote prospect.

I think the initial non-release of these games in Western territories had to do with their perceived niche appeal and the macroecenomics of releasing games on cartridge. The investement was simply not justified in the face of high production costs and small profit margins vis-a-vis low predicted sales (let's face it, none of them were ever going to do 8 million, cult classics or not).

As for their release on the VC, the argument is certainly well-established, but we have to return to the core point, which is that Square finds itself between a rock and a hard place. Can localisation for previously Japanese-only titles be justified versus the low purchasing costs of such games on the VC? Likely not. And what about localisation and update for release on modern systems? Such an action would likely require retooling of the game to meet the expectations of a modern audience (and thus even higher investment), and the reputation of a game like Seiken Denstesu 3 have - unlike Final Fantasy games that have built up a massive following due to the quality and popularity of newer sequels in the West - been shattered by the decidedly sub-par offerings since. Why should the 14- and 15-year olds that do not remember these games initially, understand the quality of them now in hidnsight, after being inundated by technically superior yet gameplay-wise inferior titles in the interim? I think the percentage that would resides distinctly in the minority. Ergo, if I was Square, I couldn't make a business case for SD3 on the VC, or any other format for that matter. Shame.

I think you just made a case for there to be remakes of final fantasy 1-6.

P.S don’t tell square.

[BrettCelinski]

Here's an idea: Have this game on a Wii disc with Secret of Mana and perhaps another classic Mana title. Perhaps SD2 with the original 40% additional gameplay from the SNES CD project. I've heard rumours/factoids that the latter could be certainly possible.

It would need to be advertised a bit more than a more familiar game collection like Metal Slug, but could prove to be a good hit.

[Veszerin]

Here's an idea: Have this game on a Wii disc with Secret of Mana and perhaps another classic Mana title. Perhaps SD2 with the original 40% additional gameplay from the SNES CD project. I've heard rumours/factoids that the latter could be certainly possible.

It would need to be advertised a bit more than a more familiar game collection like Metal Slug, but could prove to be a good hit.

The Creator of the Mana Series, Koichi Ishii, said that "if the fans want it, it is possible."

[Nintendude]

Greetings everyone.


Seiken Densetsu 3 is the sequel to Secret of Mana, right?


If so that was a lovely game.

I really do hope a translated version does make it to the VC along with Secret of Mana. One of my all time favourite titles.

I even bought it on import from the U.S. back in the day.

Can anybody enlighten me about this "extra" content for Secret of Mana?
I wasn't aware that there was more of the game produced.
Unless I'm mistaken SoM was the first 16mb cartridge RPG for the Snes and had at least 60 hours of play time.
Not doubting that there was more produced, just find it odd that they would produce so much content for just one specific title.

If only games today would offer so many hours of play has they used to.

[Serge.EXE]

Ah, Seiken Densetsu 3....the second Japan-only release that I played on good ol' ZSNES back in the day. (The first being Final Fantasy V of course)

I believe if they pre-released info on it and gave it a localized "Secret of _______" title of "_______ of Mana", then I think that they would get a huge amount of dowloads, from both those who have played it here via ROM and those who haven't really heard of it. The only money they would spend on it would be for localization (VC games cost virtually nothing to produce as it is, they can spend a little bit for some localizations I think) and I think they could have a hit on their hands.

[Veszerin]

Greetings everyone.


Seiken Densetsu 3 is the sequel to Secret of Mana, right?


If so that was a lovely game.

I really do hope a translated version does make it to the VC along with Secret of Mana. One of my all time favourite titles.

I even bought it on import from the U.S. back in the day.

Can anybody enlighten me about this "extra" content for Secret of Mana?
I wasn't aware that there was more of the game produced.
Unless I'm mistaken SoM was the first 16mb cartridge RPG for the Snes and had at least 60 hours of play time.
Not doubting that there was more produced, just find it odd that they would produce so much content for just one specific title.

If only games today would offer so many hours of play has they used to.



Secret of Mana was originally planned and made as a launch title for a system addon to the SNES, called SNES CD, which as the name implies, ran cd-sized games.

The SNES CD project was dropped, and we were given the best RPG ever made by 1993, with 40% of the game removed, and graphics downgraded.

[beyondlogic]

The SNES CD project was dropped, and we were given the best RPG ever made by 1993, with 40% of the game removed, and graphics downgraded.

Are you saying that they were so far into development when the CD project was cancelled that they actually had to remove that much content? I was always under the impression that they had to to cut a large portion of the planned game, and that the parts that were cut were never actually implemented?

Also, when/where did Koichi Ishii say "if the fans want it, it is possible."? Do you have an interview link or something?

Man, it'd be great to be able to play the full version of SoM if it actually exists somewhere. Mostly because it's such a great game but also because of the nostalgia factor :)
Fourteen years. Damn.

[Nintendude]

Secret of Mana was originally planned and made as a launch title for a system addon to the SNES, called SNES CD, which as the name implies, ran cd-sized games.

The SNES CD project was dropped, and we were given the best RPG ever made by 1993, with 40% of the game removed, and graphics downgraded.


I was aware about the Snes CD and what it was supposed to be, but not about the fact Secret of Mana was first intended for Snes CD.

I wish that such an extended (or should I say not "downgraded") version were available some place today.

On a side note, it's due to the Nintendo / Sony Snescd partnership that we can thank for the eventual development of the bloody Playstation.
To be honest for me the PS is the root of all things bad when it comes to today's video game industry.
I have owned a PS2 since about 5-6 years or so and never enjoyed any games on it. For me they are simply just not fun.
Tis' just a big ugly DvD player for me tbh.

[Veszerin]

I was aware about the Snes CD and what it was supposed to be, but not about the fact Secret of Mana was first intended for Snes CD.

I wish that such an extended (or should I say not "downgraded") version were available some place today.

On a side note, it's due to the Nintendo / Sony Snescd partnership that we can thank for the eventual development of the bloody Playstation.
To be honest for me the PS is the root of all things bad when it comes to today's video game industry.
I have owned a PS2 since about 5-6 years or so and never enjoyed any games on it. For me they are simply just not fun.
Tis' just a big ugly DvD player for me tbh.tis a broken piece of 300$ trash for me tbh.

PS1 had some good games though:

Final Fantasy Tactics, Xenogears, Suikoden....That's about it.

[kelvingreen]

The question that interests me is why the game didn't subsequently appear on PS1 when SNESCD was dropped. Just easier to trim it to fit on cart, I suppose.

[franman781]

if they could release Final Fantasy games on the DS, nintendo obviously has liscencing from square(soft/)enix if not VC, then remake SD3 for DS, just make the touch screen the magic/item select. the DS needs a good mana game, since the others are terrible

[Serge.EXE]

the DS needs a good mana game, since the others are terrible

Unfortunately, this is true for the most part :(

But it's only because Square doesn't realize the market they are selling to when they released Children of Mana and Heroes of Mana. When I heard Children of Mana was coming to the DS, I had hoped it would be very similar in terms of Secret of Mana, which it was to a degree. However, the fact that it was dungeon based and had a very crappy use of the Touch screen made it very disappointing.

What they need to do is have another epic RPG with a huge world, and use the Touch Screen as a permanent item/magic ring, making the use of items or magic real time, giving the game a fast-paced action because you have less time to decide what to do. That's what I want to see at least

[Veszerin]

The question that interests me is why the game didn't subsequently appear on PS1 when SNESCD was dropped. Just easier to trim it to fit on cart, I suppose.

because square enix are *******s, and koichi ishii is an idiot.

[franman781]

What they need to do is have another epic RPG with a huge world, and use the Touch Screen as a permanent item/magic ring, making the use of items or magic real time, giving the game a fast-paced action because you have less time to decide what to do. That's what I want to see at least

Thats about what i was thinking.

Especially if anyone here has played the Kingdom Hearts series you know picking items and magic spells (without the use of the shortcut buttons) took some time, making you strategize(however you spell it) how and when you use the items/spells.

and also building on the touch screen item magic ring:

put two tabs on the top of the touch screen, one side items one side magic, and you can switch between anytime(must have the sweet sfx) you press the spell/item, then a quick menu pops up having you choose which out of your party of three will get what item or cancel, or which enemy gets the dose of mana punishment. this also would be good for setting up your attack in advance, still slash away using the regular buttons, and when the time is right, you touch the enemy/ally to attack/heal.