Rare Licence

[unv_Nintendo64]

I know everyone is saying how its a pipe dream for Golden eye, Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark and any other Rare game to come out for the virtual console because Microsoft owns RAre now!

But i dnt undertsand why cant they! Even though we dnt have rights with Rare any more were putting up N64 games! Games that have all rdy came out and are only for the N64! For example why cant we put up Golden Eye it only came out for N64 so since its a N64 game dnt we have rigths to the game too not only Rare!

[tim]

I think the way it works is that they still can release it if they were releasing it for the actual n64 and not the wii n64 because its being released via a different media. Besides these contracts probably expire after a while.

[wychwood_drinker]

ok. rare was a games company. they made golden eye.


they paid Nintendo so they could publish the game on the n64. they probably paid less buy promising not to publish it on any other console. but Nintendo did not buy the game. the money from the games goes to rare.

rare got brought buy Microsoft.so Microsoft owns everything rare owns. including golden eye.

its Microsoft's product.

so if Nintendo publish it without Microsoft's permission they will be sued.

[Pocketim]

Not even Donkey Kong 64 can be on VC because Jetpac was a bonus came on it:(

[enjoievan]

This could be promising, as Banjo-Kazooie was nintendo published.

If it was available, then and only then would I proclaim the Wii as the best system ever.

[Pit 42]

Although the odds are against any form of Rare game coming to the VC, I'm still hoping for Goldeneye, Banjo Kazooie, and all the others.

And concerning Jetpac in DK64: If Nintendo wants to release DK64 they'll probably just release it without that game on it. They've edited out all forms of 'offensive' stuff in Devil's Crush and omitted the Kawaski license from Wave Race 64, so I'm certain Nintendo would just cut the game out.

[tim]

I would like to see Goldeneye but I don't think Nintendo will try and get it until they run out of n64 games to release. And at their present rate of 1 n64 game per month it will be many years before we see it.

[Stifler]

This could be promising, as Banjo-Kazooie was nintendo published.

If it was available, then and only then would I proclaim the Wii as the best system ever.
If I'm not mistaken, the Banjo character in Diddy Kong Racing DS was taken out.

[Avarice]

If I am not mistaken, rare doesn't own the licence to 007 or goldeneye anymore... Some other group does, and Reggie has stated that he knows how many people love the game and that they are pursuing this. He has nearly promised us the game so there is definitly hope.

[hippiecrite]

Rare games can be released on the VC and in fact they already have as Donkey Kong Country 1 and 2 are already on the service. The reason for this is because Donkey Kong is a Nintendo IP and Nintendo of course holds the copyrights and trademarks on it, not Rare.

Goldeneye is also possible as Rare simply programmed the game but they do not have the rights to the James Bond license, Activision does now, so Nintendo would have to work out and arrangement with Activision to release Goldeneye for the VC. It is possible this could happen since Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was released already even though Konami no longer controls the TMNT license.

The games we won't see though are the games that involve Rare IPs. Jet Force Gemini, Conker's Bad Fur Day, the two Banjo Kazooie's and Perfect Dark.

[tim]

...Reggie has stated that he knows how many people love the game and that they are pursuing this. He has nearly promised us the game so there is definitly hope.

Nintendo is like a slow dinosaur when it comes to pursuing stuff that they're not directly interested in. I doubt they're directly interested in releasing this when they have a lot of Nintendo products to make money off of.


...It is possible this could happen since Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was released already even though Konami no longer controls the TMNT license....

I guess this may mean we'll see Goldeneye go for 1100 points , lol

[Pit 42]

I'd pay 1100 points for Goldeneye any day. Even 1500 points (though I wouldn't exactly be happy about it :) ).

[kelvingreen]

Goldeneye is also possible as Rare simply programmed the game but they do not have the rights to the James Bond license, Activision does now, so Nintendo would have to work out and arrangement with Activision to release Goldeneye for the VC. It is possible this could happen since Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was released already even though Konami no longer controls the TMNT license.
Are you sure about this part? Are you certain that Rare (and thus Microsoft) don't own some part of Goldeneye? My understanding is that the situation is complex because Activision hold the Bond licence, and the Goldeneye game rights are held up between Nintendo and Rare/Microsoft.

That said, TimeSplitters has a near-identical engine to Goldeneye, and there were no legal issues surrounding that, so perhaps there could be a VC release that strips out the Bond references?

[tim]

... so perhaps there could be a VC release that strips out the Bond references?

Will it still be the same without the Bond?

[SKTTR]

James Bond belongs to a movie company, not Activision.
So if anything, Nintendo has to ask the movie company.

[hippiecrite]

James Bond belongs to a movie company, not Activision.
So if anything, Nintendo has to ask the movie company.

Yes, but MGM/United Artists granted Activision the right to develop video games based on James Bond, just like they did with EA and Rare previously. Since Activision is the software house that has the Bond video game license they would have to be involved in any kind of deal to bring Goldeneye to the VC.

The same thing applies to EA with their exclusive use of the NFL license. In order to have NFL teams and players in Tecmo Bowl, Nintendo and Tecmo would have had to negotiate something with EA. Instead they just edited the Tecmo Bowl code to remove the player references. Wave Race 64 also had the Kawasaki banners edited out of it because Nintendo's licensing deal with the company expired.

[SegaFan]

Just to clear this up, although Nintendo published Banjo-Kazooie and others (and normally that would mean that Nintendo would have the rights to it no matter what happens to the developer), Microsoft specifically bought the rights to certain Rare games and franchises like Banjo-Kazooie so they are no longer Nintendo's (even if they were originally). There is no chance that Banjo-Kazooie or any other Microsoft-owned game will appear on virtual console, except maybe if Xbox fails and Microsoft pulls out of the console market.

Donkey Kong 64 is still Nintendo's just like Donkey Kong Country so I see no reason why we won't see that on VC but not until we've had DKC3 as well. As for Goldeneye, I'm pretty certain that Microsoft don't own any part of it. I would guess that permission would be needed from MGM first, probably it would cost Nintendo money to buy the licence again and if that's the case I think they wouldn't bother while there are plenty of other games. I doubt as well that they'd take the trouble to edit out the James Bond references, they'd have to completely re-do the soundtrack for a start, the storys, the locations, everything.

[Pit 42]

No way will Nintendo take out all the James Bond references in Goldeneye. That would ruin the whole game!!

I'm sorry to say this, but it looks like we'll never see Banjo or Conker on the VC. But at least Goldeneye's chances are looking...positive.

That being said, I'm sure Nintendo would have to go through a lengthy legal process to acquire the rights to distribute the game again through VC, so I guess it all depends on how far Nintendo is willing to go to get the game.

[kelvingreen]

I only ever played Goldeneye in multiplayer, so when I said they could remove the Bond references, I'd forgotten the one-player storyline! ;)

[Pit 42]

I only ever played Goldeneye in multiplayer, so when I said they could remove the Bond references, I'd forgotten the one-player storyline! ;)
Hey, no problem I understand...:D

It's too bad we don't have a lawyer or something on the forums to tell us what Nintendo would have to do to get the rights to Goldeneye.

[Beholder]

Not being a Rare fan (not in their glory, not now), I'm not interested in their VC releases. The only one I like from Rare is Goldeneye, and I would love to play it in better resolution, but if it's not possible, I can play it in my N64.

But...I remember reading about the same topic in other websites, and many people said that it was nearly impossible. But suddenly, Viva Pinata was announced for DS.

This is interesting. Viva Pinata is a Rare game, released in a Microsoft system. Obviously Microsoft does not have properties in the portable gaming market, and the DS sells more than bread, so it's a smart move. In the case of Banjo-Kazooie it's different, because they are releasing BK3 for Xbox 360, so a port for DS is possible too. Don't forget that there is a GBA Banjo-Kazooie too.

So, considering how Microsoft is milking Rare licenses, I wouldn't be surprised to see these game in the VC. Both love money. And these games are loved by some gamers.

As a side note, I find funny how every time people talk about Rare, nobody mentions Killer Instinct!

[kelvingreen]

Well, I didn't like KI much at all, so that'll be why I'm not clamouring for its release! ;)

[Pit 42]

Not being a Rare fan (not in their glory, not now), I'm not interested in their VC releases. The only one I like from Rare is Goldeneye, and I would love to play it in better resolution, but if it's not possible, I can play it in my N64.

But...I remember reading about the same topic in other websites, and many people said that it was nearly impossible. But suddenly, Viva Pinata was announced for DS.

This is interesting. Viva Pinata is a Rare game, released in a Microsoft system. Obviously Microsoft does not have properties in the portable gaming market, and the DS sells more than bread, so it's a smart move. In the case of Banjo-Kazooie it's different, because they are releasing BK3 for Xbox 360, so a port for DS is possible too. Don't forget that there is a GBA Banjo-Kazooie too.

So, considering how Microsoft is milking Rare licenses, I wouldn't be surprised to see these game in the VC. Both love money. And these games are loved by some gamers.

You make a good point, but the thing is, Microsoft is not worried about bringing Rare games to the DS because they are not competing in that market. However, if Microsoft OK'd a VC release of say, Banjo-Kazooie, they would be losing money because people would have to buy a Wii to play the game, thus detracting their XBox 360 sales.

So you see, it's all about the marketing. Microsoft doesn't want to lose money, so they would never give away the rights of one of Rare's games to a competing system.

Oh, and I just thought I'd post this. It's an official quote from Rare a while back about the possibility of Rare games on the VC:


This is where we finally edge into territory that could see Scribes neutron bombed from management level. The only Rare-developed title on Virtual Console right now is the original Donkey Kong Country, and unofficially there's a strong likelihood that its sequels will follow. But the Donkey Kong series of games is a Nintendo-owned franchise starring an established Nintendo character, whereas something like Banjo isn't (and even Diddy Kong Racing is less clear-cut), so it's nowhere near as easy to call. Especially when you also consider the existence of Xbox Live Arcade. So right now, the best answer we can offer (for either download service) is 'it's possible'.


Things are also looking evn more positive for Goldeneye on VC: IGN already has a page reseved for a VC release: http://http://wii.ign.com/objects/867/867280.html. It's pretty bare right now, but at least they're ready.

[SegaFan]

But...I remember reading about the same topic in other websites, and many people said that it was nearly impossible. But suddenly, Viva Pinata was announced for DS.

This is interesting. Viva Pinata is a Rare game, released in a Microsoft system. Obviously Microsoft does not have properties in the portable gaming market, and the DS sells more than bread, so it's a smart move. In the case of Banjo-Kazooie it's different, because they are releasing BK3 for Xbox 360, so a port for DS is possible too. Don't forget that there is a GBA Banjo-Kazooie too.
Since they've been owned by Microsoft, Rare have released (as you say) a Banjo-Kazooie game on GBA, and Banjo Pilot as well that makes two, they did the Donkey Kong Country and Diddy Kong Racing ports for the GBA and DS, and more. Microsoft clearly don't mind them making handheld games while Microsoft don't have a handheld console, so they're not competing. With the Wii Virtual Console it's another matter, since it's competing directly with Xbox Live Arcade.

[tim]

With the Wii Virtual Console it's another matter, since it's competing directly with Xbox Live Arcade.

Ha Ha, I guess we can all look forward to the Golden Eye port on XBLA.

Nintendo should have just bought out Rare after all the system sellers they released for their consoles over time.

Microsoft was smart for buying Rare because now they have someone to make the kids game for the 360 because they're trying to be a family console.

[Tull]

Nintendo should buy the 007 rights to block MS's chances on getting a port in any forms :p. But then again they arent evol like M$.

[Jonno]

I was thinking the same thing...
High hopes for the Banjo-Kazooie and Conker series! (Plus having all originals in Diddy Kong Racing) :D

[Conker4ever]

I just thought of something, what if the Banjo games were available on both systems,except the XBLA version was at an extreme discount? I mean, what if the XBLA versions were between 4 to 8 dollars, while the VC version was between 10 to 20 dollars with M$ getting some of the revenue. Also the Nintendo references could be covered(Mumbo's xylophone anyone;)),so it would "look" like nintendo would have had no hand in the game. There could also be some kind of advertisement for Banjo 3 with all VC versions. This way, everyone might be happy.:)

[Pit 42]

I just thought of something, what if the Banjo games were available on both systems,except the XBLA version was at an extreme discount? I mean, what if the XBLA versions were between 4 to 8 dollars, while the VC version was between 10 to 20 dollars with M$ getting some of the revenue. Also the Nintendo references could be covered(Mumbo's xylophone anyone;)),so it would "look" like nintendo would have had no hand in the game. There could also be some kind of advertisement for Banjo 3 with all VC versions. This way, everyone might be happy.:)
That's possible also, but I can bet that Microsoft would not agree to such a deal. If the original N64 Banjo was on XBLA, Banjo fans would flock to their system. But if the game was on VC AND XBLA, Mircosoft may make some money, but people won't be forced to buy a 360 to play the game. So, in the long run, Microsoft would be losing money on system sales.

[tim]

I just thought of something, what if the Banjo games were available on both systems,except the XBLA version was at an extreme discount? I mean, what if the XBLA versions were between 4 to 8 dollars, while the VC version was between 10 to 20 dollars with M$ getting some of the revenue. Also the Nintendo references could be covered(Mumbo's xylophone anyone;)),so it would "look" like nintendo would have had no hand in the game. There could also be some kind of advertisement for Banjo 3 with all VC versions. This way, everyone might be happy.:)

1st. It is very unlikely for two companies to share profits. I would like to see you try to get Reggie and Bill to share a cookie, lol. Especially if the cookie wasn't broken equally in half.

2nd. A company will only release a game if it makes them $$$$. They really don't care about your video game nostalgia, from a business perspective.

3rd. A guy can always still dream.

[Veszerin]

I know everyone is saying how its a pipe dream for Golden eye, Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark and any other Rare game to come out for the virtual console because Microsoft owns RAre now!

But i dnt undertsand why cant they! Even though we dnt have rights with Rare any more were putting up N64 games! Games that have all rdy came out and are only for the N64! For example why cant we put up Golden Eye it only came out for N64 so since its a N64 game dnt we have rigths to the game too not only Rare!because bill gates is a ******* greedy son of a *****.

[crops55]

I wish I lived in a place where reality didn't exist and Nintendo and Microsoft could just trade games to be released on both XBLA and VC. That way both can profit and we become that much happier.

[tim]

I wish I lived in a place where reality didn't exist and Nintendo and Microsoft could just trade games to be released on both XBLA and VC. That way both can profit and we become that much happier.

If I live in a place where reality didn't exist I would pay the Big N & M with monopoly money. Or maybe I wouldn't pay them at all : )

[flyingdutchman]

I dont really remember but Diddy Kong Racing was a rare game right, correct me if I am wrong...

[enjoievan]

The two B-K's are still "maybes," because, though it is a Rare IP, Nintendo published it and holds the rights to the original game.

Right now I don't know which is stronger, but either way, Microsoft can't put it on Xbox live either, because that would require an N64 emulator. Ninty won't allow that.

Unless, of course, Rare remakes it with updated graphics in an Xbox form.

[Pit 42]

The two B-K's are still "maybes," because, though it is a Rare IP, Nintendo published it and holds the rights to the original game.

Right now I don't know which is stronger, but either way, Microsoft can't put it on Xbox live either, because that would require an N64 emulator. Ninty won't allow that.

Unless, of course, Rare remakes it with updated graphics in an Xbox form.
That's possible, but Microsoft may not do it due to the commercial flop of their 360 Conker remake, Live and Reloaded.

[ICEknight]

Right now I don't know which is stronger, but either way, Microsoft can't put it on Xbox live either, because that would require an N64 emulator. Ninty won't allow that.
They had no problems when porting Conker, having the source code and all.

[Makeda]

That said, TimeSplitters has a near-identical engine to Goldeneye, and there were no legal issues surrounding that, so perhaps there could be a VC release that strips out the Bond references?

The reason why there wasn't any legal issues brought up to the Timesplitters game was because the majority of the Free Radical team who made Timesplitters made Goldeneye and Perfect dark. So, if anything the ideas were all their own any ways. That's the reason why the current Rare suck, thy lost the best people to Free Radical and since then Rare has been going downhill faster than a skateboard on ice.

[kelvingreen]

The reason why there wasn't any legal issues brought up to the Timesplitters game was because the majority of the Free Radical team who made Timesplitters made Goldeneye and Perfect dark.
Yes, that's part of my point, I think. There would be ways to get Goldeneye on the VC, but they might be fiddly.

[link64]

The reason why there wasn't any legal issues brought up to the Timesplitters game was because the majority of the Free Radical team who made Timesplitters made Goldeneye and Perfect dark. So, if anything the ideas were all their own any ways. That's the reason why the current Rare suck, thy lost the best people to Free Radical and since then Rare has been going downhill faster than a skateboard on ice.

Copyright does not work like that the people who made it don’t own the rights to the engine Rare does also Kelvingreen how do you know that there engine is near identical to Goldeneye’s just because the game is similar does not mean that there engines are similar.

[kelvingreen]

A fair point. I don't know for sure that the Goldeneye and Timesplitters engines are the same, but they play in a very similar fashion, and considering that the same producers made both, it's a fair assumption. But yeah, it is only an assumption. ;)

[enjoievan]

They had no problems when porting Conker, having the source code and all.

They remade it. It wasn't THE SAME.


:lolo2: